# Did the USSR provide us with any lessons that aren't in the category of "don't try this at home"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072 "2012-02-16T22:49:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/121 "2012-07-31T22:33:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Points to the OP. No one is denying that Stalin and Mao did terrible things. There are plenty of “don’t try this at home” lessons and the ease with which Communist governments become dictatorships is one of them. But if you’re so freaking blind mad with fear and anger at Communist governments that you can’t bear to think about them objectively, you probably should not be reading this thread. Oh. Right. I thought “objective” meant facts. In other words, not letting emotion and ‘fear and anger’ (your words) get in the way of the facts. I pointed out some above. You said - without facts, I might add - that communist cultures treated their people as an ‘asset’. I tried to point out the insane, ridiculous nature of that comment by referencing 10s of millions of innocent people brutally slaughtered in the USSR and communist China. I didn’t even trot out the Berlin Wall, which was a physical impediment to keeping people imprisoned in their own country. And for those who tried to cross it, were shot. Who is objective here? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/122 "2012-07-31T22:59:55Z")
> [@benbo1](#): > > OK, so Christie’s design was great - no other tank at that time had that kind of sloped armor. Thickness notwithstanding, the overall effect is to dissipate the force of incoming shells (at a 90` angle). No, sloping the armor does not dissipate the force of a shell; it increases the amount of armor a shell must penetrate. [See this diagram](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sloped_Armour_Diagram.png#file). > [@](#): > > As far as the dog bombs - it’s too aggravating quoting any authority, since many trolls bitch about any particular website or authority. 1 of their favorite activities is the 1-word reply ‘Cite?’. I saw it on a show on the Military Channel too. U wanna go thru all the sites, google this: > [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=russian+dog+bombs+ww2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) So put a lot more simply, you’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![benbo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@benbo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/benbo1)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/123 "2012-07-31T23:17:49Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > No, sloping the armor does not dissipate the force of a shell; it increases the amount of armor a shell must penetrate. [See this diagram](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sloped_Armour_Diagram.png#file). > > So put a lot more simply, you’ve got nothing. OK, all the other experts are wrong, & you’re right. > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=advantage%2Bsloped%2Barmor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)** Yeah. To put it simply, I made the whole thing up - & hallucinated the footage where dogs were charging panzers. [\sarcasm] :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/124 "2012-08-01T02:39:07Z")
The Stormovik ground attack aircraft. Also, great catchphrases like: “Quantity has a quality all its own.” and “In America, you watch television. In Soviet Union, television watch YOU!” ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/125 "2012-08-01T13:12:58Z")
> [@benbo1](#): > > OK, all the other experts are wrong, & you’re right. > [Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=advantage+sloped+armor&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) > > Yeah. To put it simply, I made the whole thing up - & hallucinated the footage where dogs were charging panzers. > > [\sarcasm] :smack: He’s not asking you if you stayed up and watched TV one night. He’s asking you for a cite on the 400 number. Based on the lazy-ass google search you posted, not even the people who were thought to have grossly exaggerated the success of the program claim more than 300. Most historians seem to think it worked no more than a handful of times. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/126 "2012-08-01T14:19:39Z")
Unfortunately, the US is imitating the worst features of the USSR-we are now blowing trillions on such flops as: -the Chevy Volt: $350 million invested, zero return -solar energy: Solyndra, Evergreen, etc., the list of failed companies goes on -high speed rail: “investing” in transportation projects that are unneeded and overpriced -General Motors: the taxpayers are likely to lose $33 billion on this one I’m not sure if what the present administration is doing in more “crony capitalism” or Stalin-style statism. But the results are the same-massive debt and failing firms. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/127 "2012-08-01T14:46:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not perzackly. Lysenko believed that alterations of a living being could be inherited. Utter drivel, of course, but Stalin saw it as strengthening the case for communism, in that human beings would evolve more quickly into socialist beings than would be possible by way of direct evolution. Which, of course, would take thousands of years. This would be drivel in the purest sense but if taken to a slightly different level might be true. Those humans who best adapted to the alterations might have children who were more adapatable than the previous generatin and so on. Any type of selecting breeding will nullify evolution and speed up a process possibly many thousands of times faster than it could happen naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/128 "2012-08-01T16:08:32Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Unfortunately, the US is imitating the worst features of the USSR-we are now blowing trillions on such flops as: > -the Chevy Volt: $350 million invested, zero return > -solar energy: Solyndra, Evergreen, etc., the list of failed companies goes on > -high speed rail: “investing” in transportation projects that are unneeded and overpriced > -General Motors: the taxpayers are likely to lose $33 billion on this one > I’m not sure if what the present administration is doing in more “crony capitalism” or Stalin-style statism. > But the results are the same-massive debt and failing firms. All of it a drop in the bucket compared to the disastrous results of unfettered capitalism. Perhaps your memory does not go back to 2008? ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/129 "2012-08-01T20:51:39Z")
I haven’t read much of this thread, but my takeaway on the economics of the old USSR was that they were pretty good at massive projects (e.g. huge dams, building a military etc.) but horrible at managing a consumer economy (e.g. having popular sizes and styles of shoes available in stores on a timely basis.) In a centrally planned economy that result makes sense. From on high it’s easy to see the big stuff, but much harder to manage the little things. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072/130 "2012-08-02T10:30:34Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > Oh. Right. > > I thought “objective” meant facts. In other words, not letting emotion and ‘fear and anger’ (your words) get in the way of the facts. > > I pointed out some above. You said - without facts, I might add - that communist cultures treated their people as an ‘asset’. I tried to point out the insane, ridiculous nature of that comment by referencing 10s of millions of innocent people brutally slaughtered in the USSR and communist China. > > I didn’t even trot out the Berlin Wall, which was a physical impediment to keeping people imprisoned in their own country. And for those who tried to cross it, were shot. > > Who is objective here? So far, he is, since you keep quoting things that have nothing to do with the original citation, which was about East Germany and how people were an asset. Hint: that doesn’t mean they can’t be killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-ussr-provide-us-with-any-lessons-that-arent-in-the-category-of-dont-try-this-at-home/613072.md?page=6)