# Did the Vatican even field Olympic athletes?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 9, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425 "2008-08-09T17:51:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/1 "2008-08-09T17:51:28Z")
The title is the question. After watching the spectacular Olympic opening ceremony, and seeing micronations fielding one or three athletes, I wondered … well, what about the Vatican? Did they ever field any athletes? What about the Sovereign Military Order of Malta?
---
### Author:  [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/2 "2008-08-09T18:39:13Z")
[Louis Handley](http://cnsblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/from-the-vatican-to-olympic-gold-in-1904/) won 2 gold medals in the 1904 olympics and was born in Vatican city.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/3 "2008-08-09T18:46:00Z")
The cassocks and robes get in the way.
---
### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/4 "2008-08-09T19:02:51Z")
[QUOTE=mutantmoose]
[Louis Handley](http://cnsblog.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/from-the-vatican-to-olympic-gold-in-1904/) won 2 gold medals in the 1904 olympics and was born in Vatican city.
[/QUOTE]
Interesting, but he competed for the US, not the Vatican. Vatican City does not have a National Olympic Committee, so no athletes compete under the Vatican City flag. Some of the pre-WWI Games were not run according to participation in a NOC, but no Vatican City teams were in these Games, either.
---
### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/5 "2008-08-09T19:16:28Z")
The other half of the question, though, is interesting. What micronations participate, and are any of them competitive? I can recall, from memory, a girl skier from Liechtenstein taking the bronze in an event at either the '76 or '80 winter games. Fluke, or part of an ongoing program?
---
### Author:  [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/6 "2008-08-09T19:19:30Z")
Cross-country, holy-water polo, trinity-athalon, steeple-chase?
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/7 "2008-08-09T19:37:33Z")
Are there actually families, women, young people, or children who are citizens of the Vatican State? I was under the impression that the Vatican’s citizens are mostly Important Catholic Church People, hence mature and celibate men.
---
### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/8 "2008-08-09T19:46:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
Are there actually families, women, young people, or children who are citizens of the Vatican State? I was under the impression that the Vatican’s citizens are mostly Important Catholic Church People, hence mature and celibate men.
[/QUOTE]
From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City#Citizenship):
> [@](#):
>
> Citizenship of the Vatican City is granted iure officii, which means it is conferred upon some of those who have been appointed to work in certain capacities at the Vatican, and it is usually revoked upon the termination of their employment. During the period of employment citizenship may also be extended to a Vatican citizen’s spouse (unless the marriage is annulled or dissolved, or if a conjugal separation is decreed) and children (until, if they are capable of working, they turn 25, or in the case of daughters, if they marry).[citation needed] Terms of citizenship are defined in the Lateran Treaty, and laws concerning the creation of the Vatican state in 1929 sought to restrict the number of people who could be granted Vatican citizenship. The only passports issued by the Vatican are diplomatic passports and service passports.[6]
>
> As of 31 December 2005, there were 558 people with Vatican citizenship, of whom 246 are dual-citizens of other countries (the majority being Italian). The Lateran Treaty provides that in the event a Vatican citizen has his or her original nationality revoked and also loses Vatican citizenship, he or she will be automatically granted Italian citizenship.[6]
>
> Among the 558 were:[26]
>
> ```
> * The Pope;
> * 58 cardinals;
> * 293 members of the clergy who serve as diplomatic envoys abroad;
> * 62 lesser-ranking clergy members who work in the Vatican;
> * 101 officers, NCOs, and men of the Papal Swiss Guard; and
> * 43 lay persons.
>
> ```
---
### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/9 "2008-08-09T19:52:56Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather]
Cross-country, holy-water polo, trinity-athalon, steeple-chase?
[/QUOTE]
9.5, 6, 2, 9.5
---
### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/10 "2008-08-09T19:54:03Z")
Wiki also tells me that the Swiss Guard recruits are required to be single. However, it goes on further to mention some episode in which the Commandant of the Guard “and his wife” were murdered, suggesting to me that maybe after some years initial training the Guards can indeed get married and (presumably) live in VC with wife and kids?
---
### Author:  [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/11 "2008-08-09T20:05:15Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88]
Wiki also tells me that the Swiss Guard recruits are required to be single. However, it goes on further to mention some episode in which the Commandant of the Guard “and his wife” were murdered, suggesting to me that maybe after some years initial training the Guards can indeed get married and (presumably) live in VC with wife and kids?
[/QUOTE]
To the best of my knowledge (and memories from 9 years of Catholic school), that’s correct. While most members of the Swiss Guard serve for relatively short periods, some serve for 20 years or more, and there is no requirement that long-serving Guards remain single. I don’t know if there are provisions for them to live in Vatican City or if they just find an apartment in Rome after marrying.
Presumably they find their girlfriends while off-duty, as the Vatican has got to be one of the worst places in the world for picking up chicks 😃
---
### Author:  [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/12 "2008-08-09T20:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=flodnak]
Presumably they find their girlfriends while off-duty, as the Vatican has got to be one of the worst places in the world for picking up chicks 😃
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don’t know about that:
[http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198)
---
### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/13 "2008-08-09T21:51:08Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp]
The other half of the question, though, is interesting. What micronations participate, and are any of them competitive? I can recall, from memory, a girl skier from Liechtenstein taking the bronze in an event at either the '76 or '80 winter games. Fluke, or part of an ongoing program?
[/QUOTE]
Wikipedia has a list of all-time medal counts by country: [All-time Olympic Games medal table - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_count)
Liechtenstein has 9 medals total: [Liechtenstein at the Olympics - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_at_the_Olympics) Female downhill skier Hanni Wenzel won a bronze in 1976 and two golds and a silver in 1980.
---
### Author:  [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/14 "2008-08-09T21:56:25Z")
[QUOTE=bibliophage]
Wikipedia has a list of all-time medal counts by country: [All-time Olympic Games medal table - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_count)
Liechtenstein has 9 medals total: [Liechtenstein at the Olympics - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_at_the_Olympics) Female downhill skier Hanni Wenzel won a bronze in 1976 and two golds and a silver in 1980.
[/QUOTE]
A swimmer from the Cook Islands posted the worst time in the heats for the 100 breaststroke today. Population 18,700. They actually have four atletes competing in the games.
---
### Author:  [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/15 "2008-08-09T22:05:16Z")
It looks like Palau (pop. 20,000) has six athletes at the games. According to [this Wikipedia list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population), that is 200 fewer people than in the Cook Islands. Of course, my previous post saying 18,700 came from Wikipedia as well.
---
### Author:  [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/16 "2008-08-09T22:10:49Z")
I want to see nuns playing beach volleyball
---
### Author:  [@ntcrawler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ntcrawler)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/17 "2008-08-09T22:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
I want to see nuns playing beach volleyball
[/QUOTE]
Let’s have them play against Iranian women. 😃
---
### Author:  [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)
#### Post date: [August 9, 2008, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/18 "2008-08-09T23:07:39Z")
No, you really don’t want to. Yipes.
---
### Author:  [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)
#### Post date: [August 10, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/19 "2008-08-10T16:53:14Z")
[QUOTE=bibliophage]
Wikipedia has a list of all-time medal counts by country: [All-time Olympic Games medal table - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_count)
Liechtenstein has 9 medals total: [Liechtenstein at the Olympics - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein_at_the_Olympics) Female downhill skier Hanni Wenzel won a bronze in 1976 and two golds and a silver in 1980.
[/QUOTE]
I believe this makes Liechtenstein the best performing country ever at the Olympics, on a medals per capita basis.
Ed
---
### Author:  [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)
#### Post date: [August 10, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425/20 "2008-08-10T17:07:41Z")
[QUOTE=suranyi]
I believe this makes Liechtenstein the best performing country ever at the Olympics, on a medals per capita basis.
Ed
[/QUOTE]
So I think we should all root for Tuvalu’s three athletes to win medals and take over the per capita crown. Tuvalu is listed at 11,000. Nauru appears to actually be the smallest country which is represented. 10,000 people - they’ve sent one athlete.
I’d actually be more impressed if there was a Tuvaluan mountaineer.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-the-vatican-even-field-olympic-athletes/459425.md?page=2)