Let me repeat: I am an agnostic on the matter. If I had proof, I wouldn’t be agnostic. I mentioned this in the previous thread and was told that was impossible – no one is agnostic on the matter! :smack: (About that time there was also a thread on Myers-Briggs personality type and I mentioned I am INTP while more Dopers are INTJ. )
What do I mean that “I am agnostic”? If I were forced to “make book” on the matter, I’d call Wm Shakespeare the most likely candidate for the authorship, perhaps with a 40% chance, or up to twice that in variations where there was a major collaborator. If someone replies “40% is low … I’d call it 75% or even 90%,” I’d certainly have no problem with their views. Those who regard it as a 100% certainty, however, really make me doubt their objectivity … or whether they’ve even studied the case.
And please know that I am quite aware strong case can be made against the de Vere authorship. I regard the authorship as something of a mystery. Indeed there are aspects of the stories about de Vere and Shakespeare (e.g. the confiscation of de Vere’s and Wriothesley’s papers the night of de Vere’s death) that should be considered fascinating mysteries even stipulating Shakespeare’s authorship yet the “doctrinaire Stratfordians” will not even deign to discuss these. (Whether he was the author or not, de Vere’s biography and relation to the theater is interesting, yet a major Shakespeare biography introduces de Vere only to mention condescendingly an alleged (and probably fictitious) FART ! )
The case is involved, and is based on lots and lots of circumstantial clues. Very close parallels have been found between passages in Shakespeare’s writings and those of de Vere’s. And much MUCH more I can’t summarize. I’d post a list of URL’s if I detected any sincere interest; have the debaters here even read the relevant Wikipedia page?
Do debaters here admit that
[ul]
[li] De Vere was a playwright, described as “best”?[/li][li] De Vere’s name appears on lists of playwrights which do not include the name Shakespeare?[/li][li] No plays, or even names of plays, attributed to de Vere have turned up?[/li][li] When the famous playwright de Vere died and when his widow died, King James I ordered a commemorative festival of plays? The plays performed were those of … Shakespeare![/li][/ul]
The earliest references to Shakespeare in London were both spoofish: “Upstart crow” and “Not without mustard.” Jonson’s view may have changed when he was brought into the hoax.
It is valid to point out that there is “no smoking gun” … no clear pointer to a de Vere authorship. Know that in the hoax scenario, Queen Elizabeth and King James I had specifically forbidden the revelation (perhaps due in part to political aspects of some of the plays).
There are plenty of cryptic hints about the authorship. I won’t offer more, until I hear a response to “A never writer to an ever reader.”
I will grant that many people on the anti-Stratford side say false or stupid things. The other side, however is also wildly inconsistent. To the question: Why was Shakespeare’s death almost ignored in 1616?, we hear:
… Yet on the topic of why the Author was spoken of in 1607 with words normally used for dead people, the Stratford side will say “because he was already a legend, spoken of as an immortal.”
Utter nonsense. If this is the gibberish the “other side” chooses to offer here, I’m gone.