# Did this college fail to negotiate in good faith or did this applicant deserve what she got? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031 "2014-03-18T22:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/581 "2014-03-27T21:25:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t really fault her either. She thought she could get a better deal, and it turns out she couldn’t. Maybe she will find another position that pays what she wants. I think that is pretty unlikely, given the limited demand for professors of philosophy, but maybe she will. If not, live and learn, or see if the local McDonald’s is hiring. I suspect she’ll be okay. I should be an angry “fuck those kids” kids kind of guy, since I only have a B.A. and I started a business from scratch, but, you know, I think they’ll do okay. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/582 "2014-03-27T21:25:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t really fault her either. She thought she could get a better deal, and it turns out she couldn’t. Maybe she will find another position that pays what she wants. I think that is pretty unlikely, given the limited demand for professors of philosophy, but maybe she will. If not, live and learn, or see if the local McDonald’s is hiring. > > Regards, > Shodan Based on her negotiating position, she was obviously in a post-doc position that could continue. She also had a second offer besides the one from Nazareth. She’s going to be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/583 "2014-03-27T21:29:12Z")
Good for her. Nobody did anything wrong, therefore. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/584 "2014-03-27T21:35:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Good for her. Nobody did anything wrong, therefore. In the end, yes. The only problem I personally have is her bringing this to public, and publicly naming the school, but I can see her doing so as heads-up for others. Still, I personally would have kept that on the down-low and chalked it up to experience. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised if being vocal works out best for her. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/585 "2014-03-28T16:39:38Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > That’s what puzzles me about this whole affair. How in the world did both parties not know what the other wanted? Because if I’m trying to get my first job in the field, I will convince you that I’m the best fit. So both sides knew what the other wanted (or at least she fooled SLAC as to what she wanted). After being chosen, she thought the job was guarantied and now she tells SLAC the truth about what she wanted (basically a research job) So now SLAC has three options: 1. No! You start on this date. 2. You lied to us during the process about your goals and vision. Tus pantalones están ardiendo. No job. 3. Clearly you want something different than this job. We could negotiate but ultimately we will be hiring someone to replace you within 3 years. Since this is TT, it’s better to make that change now. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/586 "2014-03-28T16:58:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Because if I’m trying to get my first job in the field, I will convince you that I’m the best fit. So both sides knew what the other wanted (or at least she fooled SLAC as to what she wanted). After being chosen, she thought the job was guarantied and now she tells SLAC the truth about what she wanted (basically a research job) > > So now SLAC has three options: > > 1. No! You start on this date. > 2. You lied to us during the process about your goals and vision. Tus pantalones están ardiendo. No job. > 3. Clearly you want something different than this job. We could negotiate but ultimately we will be hiring someone to replace you within 3 years. Since this is TT, it’s better to make that change now. I would like to see the official announcement or posting. I am sure that the start date and other requirements were included. Here is some information and comment from elsewhere: [http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/lost-faculty-job-offer-raises-questions-about-negotiation-strategy](http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/lost-faculty-job-offer-raises-questions-about-negotiation-strategy) These points were relevant: “She advises her clients to negotiate offers, but with careful attention to tone and by tailoring their requests to the institution at hand. Some of W’s requests, such as taking time for the postdoc, would be a major inconvenience to the institution, she said. And it’s never a good idea to suggest what the market-appropriate salary is, since starting salaries vary widely by institution type.” Looks like the position is still open: [https://chroniclevitae.com/jobs/0000804220-01](https://chroniclevitae.com/jobs/0000804220-01) ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/587 "2014-03-28T17:20:54Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > I would like to see the official announcement or posting. I am sure that the start date and other requirements were included. > > Here is some information and comment from elsewhere: > > [http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/lost-faculty-job-offer-raises-questions-about-negotiation-strategy](http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/lost-faculty-job-offer-raises-questions-about-negotiation-strategy) > > These points were relevant: > > “She advises her clients to negotiate offers, but with careful attention to tone and by tailoring their requests to the institution at hand. Some of W’s requests, such as taking time for the postdoc, would be a major inconvenience to the institution, she said. And it’s never a good idea to suggest what the market-appropriate salary is, since starting salaries vary widely by institution type.” > > Looks like the position is still open: > > [https://chroniclevitae.com/jobs/0000804220-01](https://chroniclevitae.com/jobs/0000804220-01) and here is a page with all kinds of information about benefits: [http://www.naz.edu/human-resources/employee-benefits](http://www.naz.edu/human-resources/employee-benefits) ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/588 "2014-03-29T20:30:14Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Here a quarter, go buy a clue. > Better yet a real world example: > I have a staff of porters that park cars at my dealership. I pay them $10-12/hr. (Make no mistake it is a minimum wage/ entry level job. I pay above minimum because I want good people) > If someone comes in and demands $15/hr to start I am not going to “negotiate” with them to $10/hr. Which is the starting rate. I will wish them well and wait 2 hours for the next applicant to arrive. > If I were to negotiate with them to let’s say $13/hr. Then I would either have to give all my existing porters a raise or have them take it as a giant fuck you from the boss for their hard work and loyalty. > Now since I want a happy hard working crew, I won’t do anything to piss my people off, so Mr. $15/hr. gets told no thank you look elsewhere. > This is exactly what the college did. > My real world boss would fire me if I were to hire someone @ $15/hr. To park cars, because the job doesn’t pay that. Also I am charged with making a profit in my department. Keep your quarter and buy your own clue. But my bad: I assumed that your hiring practices were germane to the issue here, which is hiring someone with knowledge, skills, and higher education, rather than finding just another round peg. I definitely wouldn’t want you working for me hiring people, because I’d want talented, educated, productive people, including people who negotiate. But it’s a different business so what works for you is fine for you. Just be aware that it doesn’t apply to all businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/589 "2014-03-30T02:31:12Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Keep your quarter and buy your own clue. But my bad: I assumed that your hiring practices were germane to the issue here, which is hiring someone with knowledge, skills, and higher education, rather than finding just another round peg. > > I definitely wouldn’t want you working for me hiring people, because I’d want talented, educated, productive people, including people who negotiate. But it’s a different business so what works for you is fine for you. Just be aware that it doesn’t apply to all businesses. well I’d want someone who planned on actually working for me instead of negotiating extended leave time before showing up. As a college student I wasn’t too pleased with grad students teaching instead of the people actually hired to do the work. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031/590 "2014-03-30T03:51:00Z")
This is somewhat relevant: [http://www.cnbc.com/id/101531415?\_\_source=yahoo|finance|headline|headline|story&par=yahoo&doc=101531415|Here%27s%20the%20real%20reason%20mi](http://www.cnbc.com/id/101531415?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cheadline%7Cstory&par=yahoo&doc=101531415%7CHere%27s%20the%20real%20reason%20mi) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-college-fail-to-negotiate-in-good-faith-or-did-this-applicant-deserve-what-she-got/684031.md?page=29)