# Did this conversation ever happen in the Star Trek universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094 "2024-02-26T09:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/61 "2024-02-27T23:15:59Z")
I’ve met ESL speakers for whom I could determine the UK region where their English tutor had come from, because they had traces of Welsh or Mancunian accents etc ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/62 "2024-02-27T23:29:59Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Pretty much. Season 1, Episode 4 of TNG (Code of Honor) Picard says that French is “completely obscure” by the beginning of the 24th Century. They may have retconned that in _Picard_, but that was a story point very early on in the series. **―Hubert J. Farnsworth** “This is my Universal Translator, although it only translates into an incomprehensible dead language.” **―Cubert Farnsworth** “(speaking into the mic) Hello!” **―Universal Translator:** “Bonjour!” **―Professor Farnsworth:** “Crazy gibberish!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pwODwwgE6rA/maxresdefault.jpg "Futurama Crazy Gibberish") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwODwwgE6rA&t=0) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/63 "2024-02-27T23:54:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Pretty much. Season 1, Episode 4 of TNG (Code of Honor) Picard says that French is “completely obscure” by the beginning of the 24th Century. No, Data says that French is obscure, to Picard’s annoyance, and Riker’s amusement. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/64 "2024-02-28T01:01:54Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, Data says that French is obscure, to Picard’s annoyance, and Riker’s amusement. Gotcha, I couldn’t remember which one said it, but they were establishing that Picard didn’t speak French because pretty much nobody did anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/65 "2024-02-28T01:11:18Z")
The tone of @Mangetout 's story (ID’d upthread) reminds me of this one, another Aliens-commenting-on-humans type story: [https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html](https://www.mit.edu/people/dpolicar/writing/prose/text/thinkingMeat.html) ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/66 "2024-02-28T02:15:31Z")
I feel obliged to mention Cory Doctorow’s story “To Go Boldly” in which an advanced alien thinks that the crew of an Earth starship are that centuries equivalent of Civil War reenactors. Funny. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/67 "2024-02-28T06:27:06Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Gotcha, I couldn’t remember which one said it, but they were establishing that Picard didn’t speak French because pretty much nobody did anymore. Picard DID speak French. Several times. ---
**Author:** ![Jegpeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jegpeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jegpeg)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/68 "2024-02-28T06:57:26Z")
SC would actually say that earth revolves around Sol as that is the name we gave the sun when we found out the stars are also suns. If there are alien races would expect this to be quite common (I do not know how common it is in other human languages), until a few hundred years ago there was only known to be one sun and one moon and that was there names when for example Galilao discovers jupiter also had moons they were given different names. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/69 "2024-02-28T08:23:09Z")
> [@Ulysses](#): > > But wouldn’t the same likely be true for the Blehassole? Isn’t it common for cultures to similarly name themselves, their homelands, and natural phenomena? Funny enough, I did write the rest of that skit after starting this thread… **A** : Why’d you name your planet ‘Mud’? [the other aliens visible in the viewscreen are corpsing] **SC** : **EARTH**! **A** : Earth, yes, sorry. [aside]Totally different. [suppressed giggle] **Ensign Kevin** : Captain Captain, perhaps we should introduce ourselves as coming from Terra? **SC** : Shut up Kevin! That’s just the same word in Italian. **A** : Anyway, what is it that you want, [smirking] visitors from the planet of [air quotes] Earth. **SC** : Look, I imagine this is pretty normal. Primitive people are going to name their worlds after the ground beneath their feet, then the name sticks. What does Zer-bo-bing-bah mean anyway? **A** : [indignant] Your question insults our culture! In the ancient tongue, it means Nurturing Mother; the most Blessed Jewel of the Universe, Sweet Dwelling Place and Bringer of Life **SC** : OK, I suppose that is a pretty good name [sotto voce] Although it does make you sound like you might have mummy issues **Officer Lumpyhead** : Captain Captain sir, maybe we could workshop this and come up with a better name for Earth **SC** : [angrily] You have a lumpy head! **EK** : Yeah, you do **A** : It is quite lumpy. [peering in the viewscreen] You DO have a lumpy head. **OL** : That’s fair ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/70 "2024-02-28T15:54:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Picard DID speak French. Just to clarify. He _knew_ French. It wasn’t his native language. He was shown in flashbacks at his home more than once speaking English. I can speak Japanese because I studied it but I grew up speaking English, it’s what I normally communicate with, it’s how I talk to people 99+% of the time. I’ll toss out some Japanese on rare occasion like Picard tossed out French. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/71 "2024-02-28T16:15:21Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It wasn’t his native language. He was shown in flashbacks at his home more than once speaking English. Was he speaking English? Or was he speaking French, and it was presented to us in English because it’s a show aimed at an English-speaking audience? I always took it for granted that Picard grew up speaking French as his native language. ---
**Author:** ![Ulysses](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulysses/32/16083_2.png) [@Ulysses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulysses)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/72 "2024-02-28T18:06:16Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Was he speaking English? Or was he speaking French, and it was presented to us in English because it’s a show aimed at an English-speaking audience? > > I always took it for granted that Picard grew up speaking French as his native language. I assumed the crew, including Picard, spoke English. It wouldn’t make as much sense to presume he was speaking French all along given a couple of episodes where Picard muttered “merde,” which I interpreted as a callback to his French ancestry. Or, alternatively, a non-native speaker reverting to their native language in a moment of stress. However, your point about presentation stands either way, given that they are speaking late 20th century [ETA: American Standard] English in a show that takes place in the 24th century. Presumably, English will evolve in the next three centuries, much like it has in the past three (or any three). So either way, the language spoken on screen is anachronistic. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/73 "2024-02-28T18:41:22Z")
Star Trek doesn’t generally want you to think about language barriers, unless language barriers are like Shaka, when the walls fell. Even in Enterprise, where the narrative tries to explain how translation is a work in progress, there are still many episodes where one or more of the key characters finds themselves in some alien prison or cavern or tavern, where all the aliens are conveniently speaking English. And it pretty much has to be that way, or else every episode would just be Darmok. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/74 "2024-02-28T19:20:56Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I always took it for granted that Picard grew up speaking French as his native language. Except on two separate occasions in the shows they tried to explain why he didn’t, as was mentioned in thus thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/75 "2024-02-28T23:33:15Z")
Pre-production they tried having Patrick Stewart affect a French accent. It brought up unfavorable comparisons with Inspector Clouseau, so the notion was quickly dropped. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/76 "2024-02-29T00:35:36Z")
> [@Ulysses](#): > > I assumed the crew, including Picard, spoke English. It wouldn’t make as much sense to presume he was speaking French all along given a couple of episodes where Picard muttered “merde,” I didn’t mean all along. I meant in those flashbacks at his home that **Atamasama** mentioned. On TV, you can’t really assume that someone is speaking English just because we hear it in English. Just like when we saw all those episodes where Klingons or Romulans were speaking amongst themselves. They were certainly not speaking English, but that’s what we heard. Likewise, if we see a flashback of Picard in France talking to his family, I assume that they are speaking French. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/77 "2024-02-29T00:49:21Z")
They could be speaking French and Picard could be fluent in French from childhood, but at the same time French could be totally obscure and few people outside Earth have even heard of it or recognize it. No contradiction there. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/78 "2024-02-29T02:38:14Z")
The OED gives two US pronunciations for Sol: /sɔl/ (“sawl”) and /sɑl/ (“sahl”), which I guess are identical if your dialect has the COT-CAUGHT merger. Merriam-Webster, Collins, and [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) all give only “sahl”. None of them recognize “sohl” with a long O as a valid pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/79 "2024-02-29T03:19:26Z")
As an American I can say the OED is inaccurate. 🤷‍♂️ Never heard it pronounced that way in my life, ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094/80 "2024-02-29T04:21:43Z")
I think the clincher is the early episode where Picard saw a vision of his dead mother, he addressed her as _Maman_. I think the implication is that he is a native French speaker, and reverts to French as his preference. But he also speaks English, (or Standard) fluently and can converse with English speakers easily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-conversation-ever-happen-in-the-star-trek-universe/998094.md?page=5)