# Did this man betray his family by committing suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596 "2016-01-29T17:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/21 "2016-01-29T21:06:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes. > > I’m all for suicide, for his or any other reason, but the _way_ he did it? Not cool. > > He should have shown them the respect of sending them all ahead, like Sardanapalus. That’s four, thou Smurf… ---
**Author:** ![CatastrophicFailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@CatastrophicFailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatastrophicFailure)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/22 "2016-01-29T21:10:25Z")
I wouldn’t say betrayal, but I think giving his family a chance to say goodbye would have been better. I think if I were the wife, I would feel somewhat betrayed by his keeping this whole plan a secret and shutting me out. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/23 "2016-01-29T21:42:32Z")
> [@CatastrophicFailure](#): > > I wouldn’t say betrayal, but I think giving his family a chance to say goodbye would have been better. I think if I were the wife, I would feel somewhat betrayed by his keeping this whole plan a secret and shutting me out. That’s basically what I was thinking. I can only imagine the thinking was “If I tell my wife, she’ll try to talk me out of it”. Well, don’t you owe the love of your life that opportunity? But ultimately, it’s his decision whether to live or die so he didn’t betray them with that choice. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/24 "2016-01-29T22:01:17Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Chris has the means to be cared for. He would still be the same person. I think his family would much rather have him around than not. This was my thought too. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/25 "2016-01-29T22:05:32Z")
I’m sometimes unsure whether to treat some of your hypotheticals as exercises in semantics (i.e. Should the word “betray” be defined in such a way as to include the situation described here?") or not. So, I don’t know whether “betray” is the appropriate word here, but Chris did not do right by his family: (1) I seem to recall at least one thread where it was discussed whether or not suicide was a “cowardly act” or “the coward’s way out.” That’s not the general question here, but it seems to me that here, making a decision based on fear (“The thought of even being blind terrifies him”) at least opens him up to the possible accusation of cowardice. (2) Chris has denied his family both some of the time they would have gotten to spend with him, and the opportunity to say goodbye. (3) I’m no expert in the psychology of such things, so I could well be wrong about this one, but it seems to me that suddenly and unexpectedly losing one’s loved parent or spouse, especially to suicide, has the potential to fuck up your mind and your sense of security and cast a shadow over your life in a way that a loss that you’ve had time to prepare yourself for does not. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/26 "2016-01-29T22:16:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Did Chris betray his family by checking out as he did? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/27 "2016-01-29T22:23:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. While I disagree, I certainly appreciate your well reasoned thinking on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/28 "2016-01-29T22:29:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > While I disagree, I certainly appreciate your well reasoned thinking on the subject. Suicide is fundamentally an act of betrayal. You may as well ask if a man betrayed his wife by committing adultery, or if he betrayed his country by committing treason. A long answer is not necessary when a short one will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/29 "2016-01-29T22:37:31Z")
Not everyone thinks that’s fundamental, my friend. Not everyone thinks they owe the world their life and thus stealing something if they don’t continue it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/30 "2016-01-29T22:40:35Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Did Chris betray his family by checking out as he did? I don’t blame him for wishing to check out as such. His body, his disease, his life, his decision. But there are better ways to do it. He really should have discussed the situation with his wife beforehand, told her about his decision and prepared her for the worst. Just giving her the news after its happened is an awful act. As for the act itself, there are clinics in Switzerland that will help. He could have had a dignified exit, after giving friends and family a chance to say goodbye. Allow time to plan a funeral, make sure his will is sorted out, and so on. Leaving a bloody mess for someone else to find and clean up really is a selfish act. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/31 "2016-01-29T22:40:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Not everyone thinks that’s fundamental, my friend. Not everyone thinks they owe the world their life and thus stealing something if they don’t continue it. Those people are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/32 "2016-01-29T23:47:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Those people are wrong. No you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/33 "2016-01-30T00:20:51Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I don’t blame him for wishing to check out as such. His body, his disease, his life, his decision. But there are better ways to do it. He really should have discussed the situation with his wife beforehand, told her about his decision and prepared her for the worst. Just giving her the news after its happened is an awful act. > > As for the act itself, there are clinics in Switzerland that will help. He could have had a dignified exit, after giving friends and family a chance to say goodbye. Allow time to plan a funeral, make sure his will is sorted out, and so on. Leaving a bloody mess for someone else to find and clean up really is a selfish act. When we euthanize a pet we’re being compassionate; however, you can’t even think about doing that to a human in most places. Why not, they’re both loved family members. A dog will give you unconditional love, unlike some humans but because their the wrong species it’s okay? I wouldn’t want to live like his natural end state would be & don’t disagree with his decision to end his terminal condition _at the right point_. However, he did not giving the family the chance to say goodbye. If the lawyer was any type of human being (I know, I know, he’s a lawyer :rolleyes:) he’ll be royally fucked up by walking in on that, as will the PD & EMS who get dispatched to the scene. I know I always was, & that’s with me being ‘lucky’ enough to know I was going to a suicide call so I could prepare myself for it a bit before just walking in on it. He had the means to go to Switzerland or Oregon or wherever, so, yeah, I think he betrayed a bunch of people & could have done it much better in this hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/34 "2016-01-30T01:16:37Z")
If I were going to be blind _and_ deaf, I would want to check out. Paralyzed I could live with, especially if I could afford special care. But becoming incommunicado with my family is not something I could face. So I vote no. A shame they didn’t get a chance to say goodbye, though. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/35 "2016-01-30T02:44:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > So, I don’t know whether “betray” is the appropriate word here, but Chris did not do right by his family: I like how you’ve framed this here. I imagine if I was the wife, I would certainly _feel_ betrayed. For one thing, I’d be thinking about how I was already concerned about how to best help our children cope with their father’s illness, and now he thrust a whole new heap of burden upon her, leaving her alone to parent four kids through the trauma of losing their father to sudden violent suicide. Children under 18 at the time of a parent’s suicide are three times more likely than their peers to commit suicide themselves, so I’d be feeling SUPER betrayed that my husband just set me up for that increased risk. I’m curious about why you included that he determined none of his children have the gene that causes this illness – do we think that he would have made different decisions in that scenario? I think there are better ways that he could have made arrangements to end his suffering, and included his wife in those decisions. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/36 "2016-01-30T03:24:42Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > . . . force people to endure the unendurable just because Human life is so precious . . . It’s BECAUSE human life is so precious that the guy did exactly the right thing. Human life is precious only “qua human life,” not when the person is blind, deaf and paralyzed. The only part I have a problem with is that he didn’t include his wife in his decision. She had a right to know. ---
**Author:** ![F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.Pu-du-he-pa-as)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/37 "2016-01-30T03:53:46Z")
No, I don’t think he betrayed his family. I’ve known, or known of, people in similar medical situations who have taken both routes out-- death of natural causes after years of misery and incapacitation, and suicide when the symptoms became too severe. It’s not my place to choose, or even express a preference for what someone in that situation should do. Neither way is great, but as a bystander, I can’t say that the swift death is worse or less humane for all involved. ---
**Author:** ![Gretchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8edcca/32.png) [@Gretchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gretchion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/38 "2016-01-30T14:58:56Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > I’m curious about why you included that he determined none of his children have the gene that causes this illness – do we think that he would have made different decisions in that scenario? My guess is that if he knew one of his children would get the illness, they might decide to follow in his footsteps and commit suicide as well, and he would rather suffer through the illness than to imagine that outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/39 "2016-01-30T15:14:24Z")
:: lights cigar :: :: blows smoke back :: Epitaph for the Suicide: Quitter ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/40 "2016-01-30T15:20:33Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > Chris has the means to be cared for. He would still be the same person. I think his family would much rather have him around than not. For some people (me for instance) “being cared for” is not something they would ever want/accept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596.md?page=3)