# Did this man betray his family by committing suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596 "2016-01-29T17:51:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/41 "2016-01-30T15:22:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > For some people (me for instance) “being cared for” is not something they would ever want/accept. Have you never been sick or injured? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/42 "2016-01-30T15:31:22Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Have you never been sick or injured? Yes. But never to the extent where I needed to be “cared for”. Last year I had a coronary artery stent placed. My gf understood when I asked her to go to work as usual the day I came home. Having her hovering around would have been more stressful to me than helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/43 "2016-01-30T16:15:41Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > It’s BECAUSE human life is so precious that the guy did exactly the right thing. How can it ever be “the right thing” to abandon your wife and family so permanently and unexpectedly? What do you think it’s going to do to those kids? What message does it send to these kids - these one-percenter kids that will want for nothing - that a less-than-perfect life isn’t worth living at all, and that if something is too hard or scary you should just give up? > [@](#): > > Human life is precious only “qua human life,” not when the person is blind, deaf and paralyzed. So the lives of the seriously disabled cease to be “precious”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/44 "2016-01-30T16:21:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So the lives of the seriously disabled cease to be “precious”. Why don’t you allow the seriously disabled individual to make that decision? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/45 "2016-01-30T16:27:46Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Why don’t you allow the seriously disabled individual to make that decision? Because that’s not a decision anyone has the right to make. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/46 "2016-01-30T16:33:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because that’s not a decision anyone has the right to make. I think this is a point on which people who come to the issue from fundamentally different philosophical or religious points of view will have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/47 "2016-01-30T18:11:11Z")
^Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/48 "2016-01-30T18:36:09Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > I’ve dealt with psychiatrists who have examined the consequences of suicide, and they describe it as a nuclear bomb that just devastates the people around them and has far-reaching second and third order effects. Even setting aside the immediate grieving and the financial matters, those kids are scarred for life. I agree with this. And betrayal is as good a word as any. Too good maybe. When you entwine your life with others, and becoming a parent is the ultimate act of that ilk, you pledge your sacred honor to do your utmost damnedest to act in their best interest. That doesn’t mean your interest goes away, but it does mean you have to entangle yours and theirs, until, and in this hypothetical even after, death do ye part. Accordingly, while it wouldn’t mean that the protagonist offing himself was off the table, doing it in that way-- secretive, sudden, totally out of the blue-- would be. As said above, it would be a nuclear bomb for whole family, especially the kids who wouldn’t be able to see the bigger picture. Only the protagonist would avoid dealing with the aftermath. A parent’s death is hard enough but to have it done that way would magnify it immeasurably. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/49 "2016-01-30T19:16:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > When that day came there was still no treatment for the disease and no prospect for same, so he rented a cabin in the woods; texted his lawyer to meet him there; and, once he had confirmation that the lawyer was en route, put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Among other things, his lawyer had instructions to deliver his suicide note to Caryl, who was, of course, devastated, though not as much as four-year-old Aggy. Hey, an enterprising lad like Chris (or Aggie, for that matter) could have a way to incorporate the story into something that might keep making money over the years, like [Per “Dead” Ohlin](http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawn_of_the_Black_Hearts)’s bandmate did. Be warned…that picture may not be safe for work, or human viewing. It features “Dead” after committing suicide. He slit his wrists, his throat, and then shotgunned himself in the head. One of his band members took pictures of the body, before calling authorities, and they used the picture as the cover art for a CD called _Dawn of the Black Hearts_ > [@](#): > > Did Chris betray his family by checking out as he did? Family, no. Wife? Yes. If he’d never even hinted at something like that, yes. I’d feel betrayed if my wife had committed suicide while we were married. And she tried 2-3 times while we were together. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/50 "2016-01-31T00:04:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Suicide is fundamentally an act of betrayal. For some it’s an acceptance of personal responsibility and the ultimate (literally) choice. Consider the situation in the OP. You’re going to end up blind, deaf, paralysed, and dumb (because you’re paralysed). The only remaining senses will be those of smell and of touch - and that’s being touched only. You face the rest of your life (once the condition has progressed that far) not only locked **in** but locked **out**. Someone who’s locked in, like **Blinkie** , can see and hear. You will not. You will not be able to express your feelings or thoughts or ideas or anything. You will not be able to communicate in any way at all. You won’t be able to listen or see or read or anything. To me, that sounds like a good definition of Hell and a fast route to insanity. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/51 "2016-01-31T00:14:58Z")
Betrayed would be if he gambled away the family fortune, leaving his wife and children destitute, then killing himself. It’s a sad situation, but I think he did all he could to provide for them and make sure he wasn’t a burden. ---
**Author:** ![carlotta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@carlotta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlotta)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/52 "2016-01-31T12:36:08Z")
When my brother was 35 he killed himself leaving a wife without millions but with four children ranging from 7 to not quite born yet. We don’t know exactly why he killed himself but he had been unsuccessfully seeking medical treatment for headaches for a long time and it may well be that he was in unbearable pain with no hope of relief. I don’t think of him as betraying his family, I don’t think he was thinking clearly. But he sure did hurt them (and me). Forever. I have less sympathy for Chris than my brother, because Chris is thinking very clearly, planning so methodically and has plenty of resources. Look, blind and deaf and paralyzed sounds pretty horrible to me too, but every extra year those kids have with a father is priceless. I think it would be better to have told everyone and used the dignified-death-in\_Switzerland route after a few years, seeking symptomatic treatment to extend the period of time when he can still interact with his family. Did Christ betray his family? I’m comfortable saying hurt them terribly and traumatized them forever when he had other better options for achieving the same end with far less suffering for most of the people in the scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/53 "2016-01-31T12:44:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Consider the situation in the OP. You’re going to end up blind, deaf, paralysed, and dumb (because you’re paralysed). The only remaining senses will be those of smell and of touch - and that’s being touched only. You face the rest of your life (once the condition has progressed that far) not only locked **in** but locked **out**. Someone who’s locked in, like **Blinkie** , can see and hear. You will not. You will not be able to express your feelings or thoughts or ideas or anything. You will not be able to communicate in any way at all. You won’t be able to listen or see or read or anything. > > To me, that sounds like a good definition of Hell and a fast route to insanity. Honestly, it sounds peaceful and relaxing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/54 "2016-02-01T20:45:37Z")
Screw the physical progression as a tipping point. He apparently suffered from the psychological impact. He didn’t go blind yet? So, hang around? Sure, chill out with the crippling mental anguish. Bullshit. No betrayal. Given his mental state and apparent anguish (this is apparent – right?), he did enough. That’s why you live your life right and ensure others are ok. \*\* It’s a life story\*\*, and not just a story of him making sure near the end of his life that all would be okay with his loved ones. Dude earned the right to end an unimaginable mental torture. . ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/55 "2016-02-01T20:47:42Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Dude earned the right to end an unimaginable mental torture. And his kids just have to deal with that? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/56 "2016-02-01T21:41:42Z")
I’d say betrayal. No matter how one rationalizes it, you’ve scarred your kids for life. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/57 "2016-02-01T21:56:04Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And his kids just have to deal with that? And you think having a kid see their parent, paralyzed, deaf, dumb, and blind, isn’t mentally damaging to them? Or watching their parent deteriorate before their eyes into that condition? There is no way out of this situation that is not damaging to the children. Every outcome will damage them one way or another. My morals don’t say that a person has to suffer this extremely for the sake of their children. Especially when it’s not clear if it even helps them at all to continue suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/58 "2016-02-01T22:04:51Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > And you think having a kid see their parent, paralyzed, deaf, dumb, and blind, isn’t mentally damaging to them? More damaging than their completely-outwardly-healthy father sucking on a Remmington because “Fuck the world, I’m scared of pain”? Yes. > [@](#): > > My morals don’t say that a person has to suffer this extremely for the sake of their children. Especially when it’s not clear if it even helps them at all to continue suffering. The _facts_ say that life is better than death. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/59 "2016-02-01T23:15:14Z")
> [@Gretchion](#): > > > [@delphica](#): > > > > I’m curious about why you included that he determined none of his children have the gene that causes this illness – do we think that he would have made different decisions in that scenario? > > My guess is that if he knew one of his children would get the illness, they might decide to follow in his footsteps and commit suicide as well, and he would rather suffer through the illness than to imagine that outcome. Or perhaps to help them through it–mentor style-- should it manifest in them. Dude in the OP had the right idea, otherwise. Although I have to wonder why he couldn’t just OD on heroin or valium or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596/60 "2016-02-02T01:30:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And his kids just have to deal with that? Yes. At 35, my friend drove his van to the lake and shot himself with ALS progressing. He had a wife and two kids. They are no worse off (and maybe better off) than my nieces and nephews who watched non-Hodgkins Lymphoma take their father at 33. So, I’m drawing on direct experience. Both were outdoorsmen… active, vibrant and middle class. Very similar. I assure you: My friend was a cop, and no one, including his family, has anything bad to say about his decision. Rather, it was just seen as an unimaginable struggle… one that was apparently too much. His children moved on as well as any who lost a parent to something horrific while young. All of this can go to Fucksville if the people surviving and helping (family, friends) are a bunch of paper assholes. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-man-betray-his-family-by-committing-suicide/744596.md?page=4)