# Did this officer violate the law? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898 "2011-07-31T04:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/61 "2011-08-08T13:18:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It’s because of cops that think they make the law that cops are not respected. Any dislike of cops from law abiding citizens comes from abuse by them. None of us dislike cops who do their jobs. We hate sociopaths with badges. +1 Twenty five years ago I would have described myself as a huge supporter of law enforcement. Today I avoid any and all contact with them and eye them with suspicion. I’ve never been arrested. My change in point of view is, I believe, an intelligent response to what I’ve seen/heard/read. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/62 "2011-08-10T16:14:24Z")
Nope, sorry, but though what he did was within the letter of the law, he’s still an idiot, and I still can’t feel any sympathy for him. As to being filmed in a public place, yes we are oftenfilmed in the developed world, usually by cctv., not by complete strangers who make a point of filming you for no apparent reason. And as a matter of curiousity, has he given his reason for his rather strange actions yet ? As to what proof there is as to him lieing to the officer, you actually HEAR him on the video telling a lie in answer to the officers question. As to the, “Enraged officer, completely out of control going on a rampage of violence”… I’ve never heard of someone in that mental state still calling the other person involved Sir ! And I’m still interested in the aftermath of whether or not he gets a pay out, courtesy of the local taxpayer, plus interview fees from the media etc.etc. And now I’m off to stand outside of a neighbours house for several hours staring at his window, which of course is completely legal, and is my right. I don’t expect him to confront me or anything because he’s not a criminal either. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/63 "2011-08-10T16:43:42Z")
Sorry, the question was whether the cop violated the law, not his victim. Everyone seems to agree the victim did not, though there is disagreement about how much of an idiot and/or jerk he might be. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/64 "2011-08-10T17:54:17Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > And as a matter of curiousity, has he given his reason for his rather strange actions yet ? In the USA at least, he doesn’t have to give a reason. Citizens here are able to do anything legal that they like, and the cops don’t get to object. If it is legal to tape a cop, then the cop doesn’t get to order him to stop. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/65 "2011-08-14T11:09:18Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I didn’t say it was wrong, just indecorous. I mean, once you’re already down on the ground it’s pretty obvious all the screaming in the world isn’t going to change shit, just lay there and wait to get taken to the station. Right, so next time a big guy with a stick and gun starts whalin’ on you, you’re going to be nice and quiet. Right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/66 "2011-08-14T11:12:15Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Twenty five years ago I would have described myself as a huge supporter of law enforcement. Today I avoid any and all contact with them and eye them with suspicion. I’ve never been arrested. My change in point of view is, I believe, an intelligent response to what I’ve seen/heard/read. I’m right here with you on this. I don’t want to interact with cops, ever. Not only do I feel that they are not benevolent, I find that they were actively incapable of actually providing help on the rare occasions when I’ve called on them, or have treated me like I’m the problem for having an issue with someone else’s lawbreaking. Who needs that? > [@Lust4Life](#): > > As to being filmed in a public place, yes we are oftenfilmed in the developed world, usually by cctv., not by complete strangers who make a point of filming you for no apparent reason. The reason why we can be filmed by cctv in public places is that there is no expectation of privacy. If everything that you’re doing can be seen by others, then everything that you’re doing can be recorded. And there was an apparent reason, a readily apparent reason. There had been criminal activity on the man’s street, at his neighbor’s home, now there were police all around doing various things. It was an unusual and troubling situation in his community and he was recording it, just as I recorded a couple of years ago when a house across the street caught fire, and there was a dramatic scene of firefighters rescuing the family dog, and I recorded last winter on the day when a city garbage truck was left sitting outside my house, engine on and idling wasting fuel & spewing diesel fumes into the air, with no crew or driver anywhere in sight, for more than an hour. People are completely entitled to stand on their property and videotape anything (and anyone) on the street right in front of them. They’re entitled to do so on a public right of way as well. Police, on the other hand, need a reason to order you to cease legally protected behavior, like watching them, and by extension, recording them. The convenient catch-all of “interfering with police business” doesn’t work when the police have to come to you because you’re not anywhere near them or what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/67 "2011-12-15T06:04:14Z")
Not an attempt to resurrect this thread, but I thought that some people might like an update: [Officer Derek Colling fired (after 8 month investigation)](http://www.lvrj.com/news/police-officer-accused-of-beating-videographer-fired-135517113.html). > [@](#): > > Officer Derek Colling was terminated after an eight-month investigation into the March 20 confrontation between him and videographer Mitchell Crooks. > > Internal investigators concluded in July that Colling, a six-year veteran, violated several Metropolitan Police Department policies. Police did not release the specific policy violations. > > The officer had been on paid suspension since April 1. I’m disappointed that this guy got paid for 8 fucking months before he was finally let go, but I’m glad he was let go. I’m also disappointed that thus far, no criminal charges have been filed against former-Officer Colling. Mitchell Crooks (well, his attorney, actually) filed a federal civil rights lawsuit last month seeking more than US$75k, so that’s going on as well. Anyway, just wanted to provide an update on the subject of this thread, since I saw the article in the 'paper today. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/68 "2011-12-15T18:14:58Z")
Congratulations to him on actually getting a cop punished for breaking the law, which is nearly impossible. Of course, the cop got an eight-month paid vacation first, which is de rigeur, but it’s something. And, Mr. Crooks will now be targeted for further harassment and violence by the rest of the police force for the rest of his life. But it’s one step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/69 "2011-12-18T20:01:26Z")
Hasnt this been threaded previously? The man was a repeat anti social minor criminal, nothing more to add. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/70 "2011-12-19T14:13:02Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > The man was a repeat anti social minor criminal, nothing more to add. Ahhh, you agree the cop’s behavior was criminal. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/71 "2011-12-19T14:42:23Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Mr. Crooks will now be targeted for further harassment and violence by the rest of the police force for the rest of his life. When someone beats up the biggest kid in school, do people start targeting that guy? Quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/72 "2011-12-19T15:03:45Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Hasnt this been threaded previously? > > The man was a repeat anti social minor criminal, nothing more to add. Funny. You had a lot of jabbering to do early in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/73 "2011-12-19T15:30:40Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Recently terrorist sympathisers have been filming members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and posting them on, I believe, Facebook. > > The reason being, that they personally are probably to cowardly to murder or even beat the officers up, but others, once being able to identify the police concerned, will. > > I expect that if you ask, I can supply a cite, as this was in the news only recently. How does this work then? Can you not identify a PSNI officer by their uniform anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Comicenbe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Comicenbe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Comicenbe)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/74 "2011-12-19T23:45:15Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Indeed. It’s illegal in at least 3 states, [according to this article](http://gizmodo.com/5553765/are-cameras-the-new-guns). [We even had a thread about it](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=565809). That’s ridiculous, what is the justification for having that law? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/75 "2011-12-20T01:38:39Z")
> [@Comicenbe](#): > > That’s ridiculous, what is the justification for having that law? You have named it – the law is based on ridiculousness. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/76 "2011-12-20T03:23:37Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Hasnt this been threaded previously? > > The man was a repeat anti social minor criminal, nothing more to add. Is this claim based on this filming-and-beating incident? Or is there more to the unfortunately-named Mr. Crooks’s criminal history? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/77 "2012-01-06T15:33:43Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > How does this work then? Can you not identify a PSNI officer by their uniform anyway? He means identify them off-duty from a picture taken of them on-duty. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/78 "2012-01-06T16:44:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Depends on the state, actually. > > In _Commonwealth v. Hyde_, 434 Mass. 594 (2001), the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court upheld the conviction of Michael Hyde for violating the Massachusetts electronic surveillance statute, G. L. c. 272, § 99, for recording statements made by police officers during a traffic stop. The 1st Circuit though ruled last year the person who is vdeotaping has a 1st AM right to do so. This I believe makes this the first Federal Appeals Court to rule such, although I did not read the whole opinion to find out if any sister circuit is in accord. I have always been of the legal contention filming and audio taping police was a right protected by the 1st AM. It is about time a High level court said so. So Hyde now is effectively overruled. [http://aclum.org/sites/all/files/legal/glik\_v\_cunniffe/appeals\_court\_ruling.pdf](http://aclum.org/sites/all/files/legal/glik_v_cunniffe/appeals_court_ruling.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/79 "2012-01-06T23:14:51Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > He means identify them off-duty from a picture taken of them on-duty. Ah ok that makes more sense. I doubt, however, it’s a secret who is and isn’t a member of the PSNI though anyway is it? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898/80 "2012-01-06T23:34:49Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > If I recall correctly, the OP has a pretty big ax to grind about the cops, so this entire debate is tainted IMO. > > The rules I teach my children are pretty simple: Always be honest with the cops, and always do what they say, as fast as possible. Any wrong doing can and will be dealt with in court, but in the off chance you get one of the small percentage of bad cops, it’s better to be in the right and beaten wrongfully than to be in the wrong and have it be a “legal action”. As a non-biased against cops person who is related to and friends with several I should say that being honest with cops is the worst thing you should teach your children. You should be polite and as silent as possible, within reason. As for this taping, I would say it would be well within the rights of the camera operator to film a police officer, freedom of the press is not an occupation related freedom, it is the freedom to publish information, and the courts have ruled that part of that exercise is the collection of information to publish. The vast majority of police are good people and trying to do the right thing but I would argue that documenting and publishing the rare abuses of power is the primary reason the freedom of the press was amended to the constitution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-this-officer-violate-the-law/590898.md?page=5)