# did toilet paper exist before toilets? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366 "2002-05-16T11:55:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bhb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ab992/32.png) [@bhb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bhb)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/1 "2002-05-16T11:55:10Z")
can someone fill me in on this, if it didn’t welll… what did they use to wipe? did they have different products? thanks. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/2 "2002-05-16T12:03:14Z")
Isn’t there a Cecil on this… yay! got it: [**What did people use before toilet paper was invented?**](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_373.html) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/3 "2002-05-16T13:52:00Z")
Regarding the OP : depending upon how you define “toilets”, definitely. The way people are constructed wiping is essential to remove fecal matter, which will irritate the skin if not removed. I suspect peopple used leaves first. See the interesting list of possibilities in Rabelais’ **Gargantua and Pantagruel**. According to other sources, I learn that the Greeks and Romans used sponges. All before the invention of the flush toilet. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/4 "2002-05-16T14:00:32Z")
yes, native peoples often used leaves. In new Zealand there is a plant called bushman’s friend, for obvious reasons ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/5 "2002-05-16T14:32:12Z")
Regarding the OP : depending upon how you define “toilets”, definitely. The way people are constructed wiping is essential to remove fecal matter, which will irritate the skin if not removed. I suspect peopple used leaves first. See the interesting list of possibilities in Rabelais’ **Gargantua and Pantagruel**. According to other sources, I learn that the Greeks and Romans used sponges. All before the invention of the flush toilet. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/6 "2002-05-16T14:32:12Z")
Regarding the OP : depending upon how you define “toilets”, definitely. The way people are constructed wiping is essential to remove fecal matter, which will irritate the skin if not removed. I suspect peopple used leaves first. See the interesting list of possibilities in Rabelais’ **Gargantua and Pantagruel**. According to other sources, I learn that the Greeks and Romans used sponges. All before the invention of the flush toilet. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/7 "2002-05-16T14:50:22Z")
Wipping doesn’t seem necessary to me. Washing with water seems at least as efficient and much more hygienic. When you think about it, wipping is rather gross… ---
**Author:** ![Maxxxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@Maxxxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maxxxie)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/8 "2002-05-18T10:18:36Z")
At the risk of sounding… childish… here’s what I learnt as a youngster: When Adam and Eve were young, And paper wasn’t invented, You wiped your arse on a blade of grass And walked away contented 😃 Max ---
**Author:** ![Snetho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@Snetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snetho)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/9 "2002-05-18T15:44:58Z")
Oddly, there is a **Toilet Paper Encyclopedia**. [http://www.toiletpaperworld.com/tpw/encyclopedia/navigation/funfacts.htm](http://www.toiletpaperworld.com/tpw/encyclopedia/navigation/funfacts.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/10 "2002-05-18T15:54:43Z")
How come people have to wipe, but other mammals don’t? Did you ever see a dog wipe? What about chimps? Maybe hands evolved to allow us to wipe, but I somehow doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/11 "2002-05-18T18:34:49Z")
My mother use to tell me that during WWII that her parents and siblings would visit a local Sears. Each would take a couple of catalogs when they left the store. They would go home and tear out the shiny pages, the rest went to the out house. She claimed it was better than some of the TP you can buy today. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/12 "2002-05-18T18:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > **You wiped your arse on a blade of grass** I believe you mean, “You wiped your **ass** on a blade of grass…” It’s funnier when it rhymes. God bless America. 🙂 stv ---
**Author:** ![mblackwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@mblackwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mblackwell)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/13 "2002-05-18T20:29:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*Did you ever see a dog wipe? \*\* Yes. I saw a dog take a dump, then drag his ass along the grass using his front legs. I know somone who says his dog does this every time. ---
**Author:** ![Omnivore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e47774/32.png) [@Omnivore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omnivore)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-toilet-paper-exist-before-toilets/109366/14 "2002-05-19T00:22:01Z")
After reading Cecil’s reply on the subject, I must remember that if I ever visit India, to not go walking unwarily in any, vast, green field around any rustic village. The morning stench must be impressive.