Must you imply that there is no evidence of drugs only because Zimmerman did not go to the hospital?
Is it impossible to say, “Zimmerman did not get tested for drugs so we do not know?”
Or do you have evidence that he avoided the hospital so they wouldn’t find drugs?
Would the hospital even test for drugs to treat lacerations and a broken nose?
Me too, I agree completely.
THis thread shouldn’t have much debate other than the facts and how the law applies to those facts.
You are arguing your speculations as though they were facts.
Where it is someone does not fit is:
YOU on a JURY.
you could say the same thing about people who do drugs and steal at school. The difference here is that Zimmerman took medication that corrected the behavior. Add to that the evidence that Martin was aggressively attacking Zimmerman. You seem to ignore this rather important fact. Barring additional information, Martin was the sole aggressor in this event.
We have evidence that Zimmerman was Martin’s cold-blooded killer too.
We don’t know if Zimmerman’s behavior was “corrected”. To know this would require knowledge about his unmedicated state. If he is a wild man–and his past and present bear out “wild man” type of behavior–then medication might only take it down a half a notch.
We have evidence that Zimmerman has a violent, confrontational, and quick-tempered streak.
We have no evidence that Martin was any of those things.
We also have evidence that Zimmerman is a liar. A terrible one, at that.
But I guess those paper cuts on his face outweigh everything else, eh?
Show me pictures. Show me blood. I have posed video five times there was no blood on Zimmerman’s shirt.
And to anyone why thinks you can get your nose busted without blood, let me take a palm strike to your face. With a free shot I will knock you down and make you bleed like hell. And you could never draw a weapon if this was followed by rib kicks and face stomps.
A pedestrian is always justified in doing this to a car stalker. But keep in mind that there is NO evidence in this thread that a beatdown happened. I have posted the earliest video of Zimmerman, and he was hale and healthy.
If you say there was a beatdown, show me the pictures. Show me. I am reasonable. If you have visual evidence I will believe it. But you don’t. I have asked for this evidence many times and you don’t have it.
I have posted video that Zimmerman was unharmed. I have posted recordings that Zimmerman was quite a bit hyped. Where are your videos? Where are your recordings?
Whatever, man. You know, there isn’t, to my knowledge, any evidence (e.g. toxicology report) that has proven that the dude who ate Mr. Poppo’s face was high on drugs, much less bath salts. But you know what? There is high likelihood that drugs were involved because (and this may surprise most of you to read) eating people isn’t normal. Similarly, it is not normal when a 28 year-old man leaves his car against the protest of the 911 operator to confront a teenager and kills him because he thought his life was about to end. Therefore, while I believe there is no evidence that Zimmerman was high on drugs that night (due to the fact he rejected medical care), it doesn’t take away from the fact that he was prescribed these drugs and, in turn, likely took them regularly which influenced his behavior that night. Your mileage may vary.
If a cite from the Mayo Clinic isn’t enough to convince you that a broken nose doesn’t necessarily have to be a bloody nose then nothing is going to convince you. I am more interested in why his head appears to have no blood at all when he’s getting out of the squad car compared to other photos.
Without reading the thread and not being an attorney
My perception of Stand your Ground is when you respond when confronted.
From what I understand, during this case there was a point where Zimmerman lost sight of Martin. Zimmerman went back to his vehicle, and Martin showed up.
Had Zimmerman confronted Martin, then Martin responded, I would agree. However, since Zimmerman lost Martin, and Martin then sought out Zimmerman, I would say that Martin is no longer protected by the Stand Your Ground. He had the exit and choose not to take it.
JMHO
If Zimmerman had eaten Martin’s face, I might be more willing to entertain your speculation. I consider self-defense to be fairly normal and NOT an indication someone was on drugs.
I note youa re still implying that the results would be positive except MArtin didn’t go to the hospital so that no-one would know he was on doctor-prescribed drugs. And you didn’t explain why treatment for lacerations and a broken nose would need blood being drawn.
Zimmerman didn’t think his life was about to end when he got out of the vehicle, and I think we are safe to conclude the facts imply such. if he thought getting out of the car would subject him to a life-threatening beating, he probably wouldn’t have.
He probably figured that letting Martin know the neighborhood watch was on duty would lessen any chances that Martin was going to commit some different crime when he got out.
What happens afterwards is where the fear for his life comes in.
I’m sorry but that’s simply not true. There was a sustained attack that preceded it. I don’t understand how you can ignore this. This wasn’t a tickle fight. Zimmerman sustained a broken nose and the injuries to the back of his head back up his story that it was slammed into the cement sidewalk. Martin didn’t have a scratch on him.
Again, that is simply not true. Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him. You completely ignore the rage behind the beating. There is no evidence that Zimmerman beat Martin or attacked him or touched him in any way.
Yes, and that will come out in court if his 5 hour interview contradicts itself. And I’m not talking about small discrepancies, that’s normal. I’m talking about real contradictions.
Is that what they’re calling a broken nose now? Martin was a troubled kid with an ugly internet persona and not the little boy on the way to Disney that his original picture suggested. I was smaller and weighed less than him in HS and was more than capable of beating the crap out of someone. The evidence points to him beating Zimmerman. It is just that simple.
All the evidence backs up Zimmerman’s account of what happened. Hereis the picture taken moments after the fight. They are consistent with what the police reported.
Eye witnesses, ear witnesses testified to the confrontation and you can year it on the 911 call. It is all consistent with Zimmerman’s account as is the broken nose that was documented.
And I second the idea that if you can’t accept a cite from the Mayo Clinic then it’s no point discussing this with you.
Your understanding is incorrect.
CMC fnord!
Yes, self-defense is normal. Confronting someone at night, with a gun, against the protest of the 911 dispatcher, is not normal. Keep in mind that most functional adults do not get into fist-fights with teenagers (even when provoked). Have you? Has anyone on this board, as an adult, got into a fist-fight with a kid? If so, did you get your ass beat? Keep in mind, that the behavior that Zimmerman thought was suspicious was really Trayvon Martin talking on the phone through a blue-tooth device (which likely made Martin appear to be talking to himself) . I don’t know how many watermelons that have to hit you on the head before any of these points sinks in: 10,001? 10,002? 10,003?
It is for the neighborhood watch. And we don’t know that Zimmerman used a gun when he confronted Martin.
Regards,
Shodan
I once had a roommate who was a diabetic and also was terrible about managing it. There was a time when he went into a diabetic coma. I called 911 for help while I was looking for his glucose pen that both he and his doctor had instructed me in the use of, which is pretty simple.
I told the 911 dispatcher I was looking for the pen, who told me NOT to perform any “medical procedures.” I knew that every second in this situation does drastic damage to organs, so I did it anyway. I told this to the paramedics who said I did the right thing. My friend’s doctor had a talk with the 911 folks over this.
I am not impressed with your claims that the 911 operator protested means much of anything. Zimmerman may have known things the 911 dispatcher didn’t. And doing things the 911 way does mean a lot of criminals don’t get caught. Zimmerman apparently thought the same, I find no culpability in what he did merely because the 911 operator was trained to urge him to keep himself safe.
I have no problem in making a citizen’s arrest even if 911 doesn’t like it. Apparently Zimmerman thought this too, and that’s ok, because 911 is not some dictatorship we are obliged to follow. Of course, they might also advise you not to commit a crime, and it is worthwhile educating yourself on what is a crime and what is not.
Zimmerman’s neighborhood had experienced a number of burglaries. Believe it or not, these do happen at night. It literally gives cover of darkness. Rain also decreases the number of people out for a stroll.
There is no evidence that Zimmerman confronted Martin with a gun. If he had then I doubt Martin would have attacked him. There is no indication that Zimmerman started the fight. Martin was shot after he assaulted Zimmerman and the time period was partially logged on the 911 call. It was not a trivial amount of time to be punched and beaten. The time frame indicates that Zimmerman did not shoot Martin right off the bat. Whether it was because Martin had his arms pinned or he just took the beating in an attempt to recover control of the situation it doesn’t alter the evidence that he was pinned down in a violent confrontation for a meaningful length of time.
The only idea you’ve put forth that makes any sense is that Martin’s use of a blue tooth might have made him look suspicious. But so does putting his hand in his waistband. I’ve seen people do this. They walk around with one hand in their waistband as if they’re holding something. It looks like the person is holding a gun. In fact, I saw this again last night. It made me think of this situation. It gave me cause to continue watching him. The last time I watched someone who looked suspicious he went on to break into cars down my street. Sadly the police were too late to catch him. But I waited in the shadows to point them in the right direction.
[QUOTE=Magiver]
The last time I watched someone who looked suspicious he went on to break into cars down my street. Sadly the police were too late to catch him. But I waited in the shadows to point them in the right direction.
[/QUOTE]
You did exactly what a *normal *person would do. The normal response when watching for suspicious activity is to watch and report, as you did, NOT to go out with a loaded weapon to confront the suspicious person with questions. In my mind, whether it’s legal to do so is irrelevant, it’s about whether a normal person would exhibit such behavior in similar circumstances.
I’m also curious as to how much legal force a neighborhood watchman has. Is he a paid civil servant or volunteer? Has had any formal or informal law enforcement training on how to approach suspicious persons? Does he possess identification (e.g. a badge, certificate) that he is acting as an official liaison for the Sanford Police Department?
If Zimmerman was acting in some capacity other than vigilante, why didn’t he have some kind of insignia to identify himself with?
Are neighborhood watches really this fucked up, that they’d send gun wielding paranoid freaks out on dark rainy nights to chase scared kids without so much as a name tag, badge, logo, some way to tell they’re not molesting kidnappers?