None of this has anything to do with the case just as Martin’s facebook pages, drug and theft problems have anything to do with the case. I’m not particularly fond of either of them. My view of the case is based on what I know so far and not what I’d like to fantasize happened. I can dream up scenarios all day long.
You really need to read up on how neighborhood watch programs work in the United States. Members of the neighborhood watch do not typically carry badges, symbols or anything else that identifies them as members. All members of a neighborhood watch are supposed to do is keep an eye on things and report anything that looks suspicious. It’s not as if the police in Florida specifically endorsed Zimmerman for the position. You’re right about one thing; it makes no difference one way or the other that Zimmerman was a member of the neighborhood watch.
Seriously? He can’t be innocent because no innocent person would say something like that! That’s a hell of a way to determine guilt.
The fact that Zimmerman is “frustrated that he has to prove his innocence” doesn’t tell me that he’s obviously guilty, but it’s a pretty offensive statement. If I shot someone, in any circumstance, the first thing I’d want to do is prove my innocence. I wouldn’t, for example, expect to just walk away like no one had just died.
Zimmy’s frustrated. Cry me a river. How frustrated to you think Martin is that he’s dead.
How frustrated would you be if your life was ruined regardless of the outcome of the trial?
I think it should be a debate rule that if one advocates firing warning shots or “winging” an assailant, then he automatically loses the debate until he takes a self-defense course.
Never point a gun at something you don’t want to destroy. Always shoot to “disable the threat.” If you are pointing a gun at someone, you should have a reason to kill them.
As a side note, why do so many people believe that someone walking up to you on a public street is a threat which justifies the use of force? I hope I never need to ask you directions, or return your wallet that I saw you drop.
You are assuming facts that you don’t have.
There is an eyewitness that says Martin punched Zimmerman. There are eyewitnesses that say Martin was on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired. There is medical testimony that proves Zimmerman had a broken nose and had suffered several injuries to the back of his head.
What do you have? Feelings? Crystal ball?
Not as frustrated as I would be if I were dead for no good reason.
Zimmerman killed a kid that a) didn’t deserve to die, and b) would be alive today if Zimmerman didn’t think he was Elliot Fucking Ness. Forgive if I don’t shed a tear over Gun-Totin’ Zimmy’s ruined life.
You left out the little detail of the beating. As it stands now Zimmerman defended himself. And while nobody has suggested Martin deserved to die he was responsible for his actions, nobody else.
I was under the impression he was in email contact with the Sanford Police Department. He has been heralded as a neighborhood watchman, suggesting that there is something official with that title and that his position carries some legal or moral weight. Clearly, based on what you’re saying, this is not the case.
You can, but it strikes me as odd. I figure it like this: an innocent person would not complain about being “frustrated” about being charged with a crime but work wholeheartedly to prove his or her own innocence. He’s not interested in that. He’s more interested in squirreling away passports, deceiving the court with inaccuracies, and playing the victim.
- Honesty
Heh, I’m sure JonBenet’s parents didn’t express frustration with their lawyer about being accused with a crime they didn’t commit. Yet, even with their reputation tarnished, the parents maintained their innocence as well as trying to find out who the real murderer was. You see, when you’re innocent, you don’t complain bitterly about how you’ve been wronged, you work to clear your name.
The neighborhood watch is manned by volunteers. They would ALL be “self appointed”.
Zimmerman has a history and Martin has a history. Martin would not have been there if he hadn’t been suspended from school for 10 days. Zimmerman was not given a lawful order by a police officer. He was talking to an operator, a city employee, who said, “We don’t need you to do that”. Zimmerman had been sanctioned by the State of Florida to carry a weapon almost anywhere in Florida. The U.S. government had no reason to deny Zimmerman the right to buy or own a firearm.
The bottomline is that both men had a right to be where they were when the 2nd confrontation occured. Both men had a right to ask the other questions about why the other was there. Neither had a right to punch the other. Unless you have an eyewitness that says otherwise, Martin approached Zimmerman from behind, the two men talked, Martin began punching Zimmerman, Zimmerman used lethal force to defend his life from Martin’s assault.
No Skittles or Arizona watermelon drink were hurt during this incident.
Are you implying they weren’t frustrated? From the Denver Post: “Over the past seven months, I have grown increasingly frustrated as the investigating authorities have limited their investigation into the murder of my daughter. . .to me and members of my family,” Ramsey said.
I asked you a question. How frustrated would you be if your life was ruined regardless of the outcome of the trial. It doesn’t matter if The President and Jesus show up and bestow their blessings on him. Zimmerman is screwed.
Martin began punching Zimmerman. Martin might be alive today if he had kept his hands to himself.
No, you are building straw-men.
By the time the punch happened the aggressive actions by Zimmerman had already happened.
Zimmerman also had multiple chances to de-escalate the situation, up to and including when Martin asked “why are you following me” and he spouted back “what are you doing here”
Note it is EXPRESSLY taught in the neighborhood watch program that :
He was a self appointed vigilante who was following and harassing a boy that had every right to be where he was as Zimmerman.
If your child was walking home at night and was being chased by a man who was twice his size what should they do? Roll over and give up?
It may end up that Martin did take it too far but with the data we have, Zimmerman is the aggressor and 100% at fault for the outcome.
A reasonable person in Martin’s place would have a good reason to fear for their life and as the information we have right now, had EVERY right to use force to protect himself.
How did you figure it like that? If I ever killed someone in self defense I’d be worried about a lot of things. I would be worried about being charged with a crime. I’d be worried I might get sued. I wouldn’t “work” with the police without the advice of an attorney. I’d be worried about all this on top of “Oh, my God. I just killed someone.”
The autopsy report stated that Martin was 5 feet 11 inches and 158 pounds. Zimmerman was 5’8" and 185 pounds on the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Inmate Booking Information dated 4/11/2012. So much for your “man twice his size” strawman.
Zimmerman also had multiple chances to de-escalate the situation, up to and including when Martin asked “why are you following me” and he spouted back “what are you doing here”.
Sooo, you’re saying the two actually talked. Nothing illegal about that.
Neither Martin’s or Zimmerman’s “life” was in danger at this point in time. There was no reason to defend yourself if you’re not being attacked. No attack means no self-defense was required.
Only after Martin began beating Zimmerman were any laws violated. Only after Martin began slamming Zimmerman’s head on the ground did this become a matter of life or death.
Because your scenario has nothing to do with this incident.
Martin was stalked by an unknown male in a vehicle who subsequently came after him on foot. Then he was murdered.
You keep saying that, but Zimmerman’s actions (while possibly unwise) were neither illegal unless you have further information. Right now, with the information we have, your line of reasoning is not supported. Not to say that more evidence could come to light (or be released by the police) to change the situation.
But repeatedly saying that that Zimmerman was the aggressor means nothing if his actions were not illegal. They don’t seem to rise to the legal level needed to justify a violent response. Until the evidence shows that, throwing the first punch remains the first illegal action.
Do you honestly not see an issue with following and chasing people down in the dark, you don’t see how a person could be fearful due to the actions of Zimmerman?
If someone stalks me in the dark, keeps following when I try to lose them and runs after me, and doesn’t answer the question “why are you following me” with an answer like “dude you dropped your wallet back there” or some other non-confrontational answer, I will assume they are not up to good.
If Travon was a woman would she have had the right to be in fear at that point?