# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/201 "2017-08-17T02:01:42Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I think one useful metric by which to judge any of Trump’s problems, is who is he fighting with? Is it just the Democrats and the media? Or is it parts of his own coalition? The more of the latter, the more trouble Trump is in. > > Right now he looks like in an awful amount of trouble. On this issue he is going against the grain of his own party, his own administration and even his own family. He is fighting prominent CEO’s. Before this he has picked damaging fights with McConnell and Sessions. > > If Mueller uncovers some serious dirt on Trump, e.g. Russia-related financial crimes, I think Trump could be impeached in six months. There is a common misunderstanding that impeachment will only happen if there is some huge moral awakening on the part of the Republican congress. In reality, all it needs is the calculation that their interests are better served by a President Pence. We are not far from that point. This is spot on. I think Trump is in about as much trouble now as he was about this time last year when he waged war on the Khan family. Unfortunately, he does have this ability to pull off the 4th quarter comeback, so we can’t by any stretch think he’s finished. That being said, there is a difference between being a candidate and being the president for real. As a candidate, people are imagining what President Trump might look like; as President, they see it every day. This is our reality. And people typically like the imagined president much more than the real one, regardless of party. Trump’s real problem is that ever since the Gorsuch nomination, he hasn’t really been able to accomplish shit – and the GOP hasn’t been able to follow through on their agenda. The Trump Reality TV presidency is starting to become a terribly distracting circus that magnifies the GOP’s inability to deliver on its promises. At the same time, the party’s also in a bind. They’ve become addicted to junk voters, and Trump is their guy. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/202 "2017-08-17T02:06:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > An outcome to be wished for, but sadly, ain’t gonna happen. Due to a shortage of spines and gonads in Congress. Yeah, I’m not really gonna go out and predict his impeachment, but his point about Trump being vulnerable is correct. The real test is how GOP members of the House view their chances of reelection starting later this year when they really need to get their fundraising efforts and campaign strategies in high gear. People probably know my thoughts on polls, but an interesting poll from time to time is the generic GOP vs generic Dem poll. If that starts showing a major gap in the double digits, then I think we’re going to start to see panic. Trump’s bulwark is the House, not the Senate. If Trump begins to lose popularity in the House, and if his cascade of failure continues, then he’s in serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/203 "2017-08-17T02:08:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I don’t blindly defend or attack Trump. True, it does appear you defend Trump out of sincere convictions that what he says and does is correct. :smack: > [@](#): > > I didn’t even vote for the man. If he runs again I might depending on how violently his supporters are attacked. Hie thee to your voting booth because I intend to spend the rest of his administration barraging them with every syllable I can muster. I’ll start now. The difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the former’s core principal is acceptance and the latter’s is hate. Trump’s supporters aid and abet a party whose core principle is and has been for decades hate of the Other. Policies and stances do not matter to them as much as insuring that they are aimed to hurt the multitudinous groups they virulently hate. The reason I started this thread was to ask whether the people whose silence has allowed that faction to overtly take control over the party might finally, at long last, be realizing that all those chants of “two legs good, four legs bad” represented the majority and not some dismissible fringe. ([Here’s one example](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=833566).) What can they do? Start by withholding all support. Votes, donations, public approval. Anything, literally anything said in support of Trump is ultimately destructive of the country. That includes your unblind defenses. Does that suit your standards for attacking Trump supporters? I’ll be happy to go up a notch if you insist. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/204 "2017-08-17T02:13:44Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But I can’t speak for the octopode’s I know. They seem to be flailing their tentacle’s … ☹ (see, my sig solves the problem altogether.) ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/205 "2017-08-17T04:39:06Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > ☹ > > (see, my sig solves the problem altogether.) Ahhh… nice. My writing is full of gymnastics just to avoid taking a stand on things like plural possessives _(Jesus’s)_ and ending with a preposition _(What music are you interested in? I have no-one to listen with)_, and of course octopi/octopode\*. \*“Ah, M’sieur would like a double order of the calamari, with two octo–” “Y’know, come to think of it, one octopus is enough…” “You don’t want two oct–” “No! Um, I mean, just one.” “But, M’sieur would certainly enjoy an assortment of octop–”. “Enough!” “M’sieur appears to be a loony.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/206 "2017-08-17T05:24:45Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Ahhh… nice. My writing is full of gymnastics just to avoid taking a stand on things like plural possessives _(Jesus’s)_ and ending with a preposition _(What music are you interested in? I have no-one to listen with)_, and of course octopi/octopode\*. Dumbest rule in the English language. I let the preposition go where it wants, and the chips fall where they may. Liberty for prepositions! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/207 "2017-08-17T05:40:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I agree with the Grammar Nazis. Reminds me of that time I was interviewing for a communications position at a Jewish community center. Asked to describe my experience with copy editing, I said I was “a bit of a grammar nazi.” It’s like I could see the words leaving my mouth in super slow motion, yet I still couldn’t grab them in time. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/208 "2017-08-17T06:41:06Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Reminds me of that time I was interviewing for a communications position at a Jewish community center. Asked to describe my experience with copy editing, I said I was “a bit of a grammar nazi.” > > It’s like I could see the words leaving my mouth in super slow motion, yet I still couldn’t grab them in time. So did you get the job? (I can relate to your anecdote, having similarly placed my foot in my mouth on various sadly memorable occasions.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/209 "2017-08-17T07:53:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > True, it does appear you defend Trump out of sincere convictions that what he says and does is correct. :smack: > Hie thee to your voting booth because I intend to spend the rest of his administration barraging them with every syllable I can muster. > > I’ll start now. The difference between Democrats and Republicans is that the former’s core principal is acceptance and the latter’s is hate. Trump’s supporters aid and abet a party whose core principle is and has been for decades hate of the Other. Policies and stances do not matter to them as much as insuring that they are aimed to hurt the multitudinous groups they virulently hate. The reason I started this thread was to ask whether the people whose silence has allowed that faction to overtly take control over the party might finally, at long last, be realizing that all those chants of “two legs good, four legs bad” represented the majority and not some dismissible fringe. ([Here’s one example](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=833566).) What can they do? Start by withholding all support. Votes, donations, public approval. Anything, literally anything said in support of Trump is ultimately destructive of the country. > > That includes your unblind defenses. > > Does that suit your standards for attacking Trump supporters? I’ll be happy to go up a notch if you insist. They are your fingers. Use them as you wish. I find your reasoning naive however. You really believe that Democratic politicians care for anything other than power? They exploit a message that resonates with many but it’s not terribly sincere. Politicians of all parties want money and power. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/210 "2017-08-17T13:38:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > They are your fingers. Use them as you wish. > > I find your reasoning naive however. You really believe that Democratic politicians care for anything other than power? They exploit a message that resonates with many but it’s not terribly sincere. Politicians of all parties want money and power. Ah, the Moral Equivalence Follies. Almost as convincing as _Springtime for Hitler_. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/211 "2017-08-17T15:41:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Politicians of all parties want money and power. Assuming this blithering nonsense is true, it then matters what the power is used for. We see what the Republicans are using their power for, much of it reversing what the Democrats used their power for. Anyone with an ounce of sense and scintilla of moral scruples will prefer putting power in the hands of Democrats and Democrats alone. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/212 "2017-08-17T16:22:22Z")
> [@digs](#): > > \*“Ah, M’sieur would like a double order of the calamari, with two octo–” > “Y’know, come to think of it, one octopus is enough…” > “You don’t want two oct–” > “No! Um, I mean, just one.” > “But, M’sieur would certainly enjoy an assortment of octop–”. > “Enough!” > “M’sieur appears to be a loony.” But calamari is made from squid. It has ZERO octopi…octopuses…er, octopodiformes. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/213 "2017-08-17T16:37:00Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > But calamari is made from squid. It has ZERO octopi…octopuses…er, octopodiformes. The plural for calamari is “pig assholes.” ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/214 "2017-08-17T19:00:51Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > But calamari is made from squid. It has ZERO octopi…octopuses…er, octopodiformes. _Octopodiformes_ is my new plural for… for octopodiformes. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/215 "2017-08-17T19:04:55Z")
> [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > But calamari is made from squid. It has ZERO octopi…octopuses…er, octopodiformes. May I introduce you to pulpo a la gallega? It contains octopu… things named “eight feet” in Greek. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/216 "2017-08-17T19:09:50Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > May I introduce you to pulpo a la gallega? It contains octopu… things named “eight feet” in Greek. _Los pulpos_, right? Easy peasy. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/217 "2017-08-17T20:02:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Ah, the Moral Equivalence Follies. > > Almost as convincing as _Springtime for Hitler_. Ah the overused and inaccurate logical fallacy folly masquerading as a coherent argument. Not convincing at all. Disagree with someone? Must be Hitler!11! ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/218 "2017-08-17T20:07:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ah the overused and inaccurate logical fallacy folly masquerading as a coherent argument. Not convincing at all. > > Disagree with someone? Must be Hitler!11! > **[The creator of Godwin’s Law explains why some Nazi comparisons don’t break...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08/14/the-creator-of-godwins-law-explains-why-some-nazi-comparisons-dont-break-his-famous-internet-rule/)** > > "I have been very careful to avoid policing how people invoke it,” Mike Godwin said. “But this was a no-brainer.” Yeah no. Not even. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/219 "2017-08-17T20:11:16Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08/14/the-creator-of-godwins-law-explains-why-some-nazi-comparisons-dont-break-his-famous-internet-rule/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/08/14/the-creator-of-godwins-law-explains-why-some-nazi-comparisons-dont-break-his-famous-internet-rule/) > > Yeah no. Not even. Yeah yes. It helps if you actually follow a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/220 "2017-08-17T20:16:44Z")
March with Nazis? You are then a Nazi. You can’t say there are “good people” marching with Nazis. Offer apologetics for every single asinine thing that Trump says/does? Then you are a Trump apologist. Particularly if you make excuses for him when Trump makes excuses for actual marching Nazis, and says “some of them are good people.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=12)