# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/221 "2017-08-17T20:20:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > March with Nazis? You are then a Nazi. You can’t say there are “good people” marching with Nazis. > > Offer apologetics for every single asinine thing that Trump says/does? Then you are a Trump apologist. Particularly if you make excuses for him when Trump makes excuses for actual marching Nazis, and says “some of them are good people.” Well none of that is relevant and the accuracy is debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/222 "2017-08-17T20:26:25Z")
Trump apologists are, at this point, merely one degree removed from being full on Marching Nazi sympathizers. The agree with their Dear Leader that there are “good people” at Nazi rallies that call for extermination of Jews. ETA: Did Trump miscalculate? Inasmuch as Trump is able to calculate AT ALL (I think he just blurts whatever he last saw or was told), yes, he did. There are not a lot of folks in the US who will self-identify with white supremicists and Nazis. There are clearly still a few though, who will attempt to look the other way and obfuscate in order to defend Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/223 "2017-08-17T20:32:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Ah the overused and inaccurate logical fallacy folly masquerading as a coherent argument. Not convincing at all. > > Disagree with someone? Must be Hitler!11! I guess you’d better google _Springtime for Hitler_, because you either don’t know what it is or are deliberately deflecting. But then, maybe **wolfpup** is right and you really don’t understand parody. Which fallacy would that be, and how does it apply? Be specific instead of throwing around innuendo. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/224 "2017-08-17T20:35:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I guess you’d better google _Springtime for Hitler_, because you either don’t know what it is or are deliberately deflecting. But then, maybe **wolfpup** is right and you really don’t understand parody. > > Which fallacy would that be, and how does it apply? Be specific instead of throwing around innuendo. Seriously, though, if you haven’t watched _The Producers_, you’re in for a treat. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/225 "2017-08-17T20:37:10Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Seriously, though, if you haven’t watched _The Producers_, you’re in for a treat. Note: Go for the Zero Mostel/Gene Wilder version. The Matthew Broderick/Nathan Lane version pales in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/226 "2017-08-17T20:39:37Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Note: Go for the Zero Mostel/Gene Wilder version. The Matthew Broderick/Nathan Lane version pales in comparison. I was oddly indifferent to the movie, despite thinking the premise is hilarious and the show within a show brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/227 "2017-08-17T20:41:04Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Note: Go for the Zero Mostel/Gene Wilder version. The Matthew Broderick/Nathan Lane version pales in comparison. Oh, I saw the Nathan Lane one. _scours Roku_ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/228 "2017-08-17T21:10:33Z")
I love _The Producers_ (1967), and watch it every time it comes on. Haven’t seen the remake. I’ve just ordered a DVD. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/229 "2017-08-17T21:24:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah yes. > > It helps if you actually follow a thread. What thread are you reading 😕? The discussion is about people calling themselves Nazi’s, espousing Nazi beliefs, flying Nazi flags and using Nazi chants. Yeah, that’s reasonably comparable to… Nazis, and the very source of the meme you’re trying to employ agrees wholeheartedly. If you’re defending swastika wearing Nazi’s, it’s not unreasonable to conclude you aide and abet Nazi’s or to make Nazi metaphors and comparisons. Nazism isn’t a low blow when you’re talking about **flipping NAZIS**. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/230 "2017-08-17T21:39:06Z")
At least they aren’t Illinois Nazis. I hate Illinois Nazis. As to the miscalculating: I was starting to consider him the new Teflon Don, and was sure he’d be re-elected almost certainly. But he really seems to be doubling & tripling down on this Nazi/supremist/General Lee thing… an issue which it seems even a portion (read: non-zero) of his base doesn’t want to touch. Here’s to hoping this is the crack that really starts to spread, so the kindling is already smoking when/if Mueller reveals something truly incendiary. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/231 "2017-08-18T02:33:18Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > Note: Go for the Zero Mostel/Gene Wilder version. The Matthew Broderick/Nathan Lane version pales in comparison. Definitely. The original’s stars are perfectly cast. Neither of the newbs can match the respective performances. I always thought the entire thing being a musical wasn’t a positive change, either. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/232 "2017-08-18T03:09:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I love _The Producers_ (1967), and watch it every time it comes on. Haven’t seen the remake. > > I’ve just ordered a DVD. It isn’t a remake. It’s a musical based on the original. To be technical, it’s a movie based on the Broadway musical which was in turn based on the original movie. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/233 "2017-08-18T03:10:36Z")
I just watched the full press conference with his most recent remarks. He didn’t miscalculate. He knows exactly what the fuck he’s doing. Now everyone is talking about stupid monuments instead of the rise of white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/234 "2017-08-18T03:44:28Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I just watched the full press conference with his most recent remarks. > > He didn’t miscalculate. He knows exactly what the fuck he’s doing. Now everyone is talking about stupid monuments instead of the rise of white supremacy. He can try to deflect all he wants, he’s already labelled the Bigot-in-Chief. He won’t live that one down, except among most of his base. It’s got electrolytes. 😃 And they won’t be enough for him to get re-elected, barring a catastrophically stupid Dem campaign. I love some of the magazine covers, too…45 using a KKK hood as a megaphone is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/235 "2017-08-18T03:45:02Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It isn’t a remake. It’s a musical based on the original. To be technical, it’s a movie based on the Broadway musical which was in turn based on the original movie. IMHO, the original is the funniest movie ever made. The musical kind of sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/236 "2017-08-18T04:02:50Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I just watched the full press conference with his most recent remarks. > > He didn’t miscalculate. He knows exactly what the fuck he’s doing. Now everyone is talking about stupid monuments instead of the rise of white supremacy. Who is everybody? The news shows that needed a new topic after a week? I’m a little confused about how Confederate monuments aren’t about white supremacy, though. And I’m pretty sure that the rest of the country hasn’t gotten over Nazis. Trump has always skated because he knew the had the vocal and overwhelming support of his base, one that loved every insult he gave the mainstream. He’s continuing along that track. So is his base. The Republicans not in his base but who wanted the power of being in the majority were content to tsk tsk occasionally while not challenging anything meaningful. Has that changed? Trump will find it much harder to produce an economy policy without the support of the type of CEOs who just walked on him. He will find it harder to change social systems without the support of the elderly veterans who remember when Nazis were the enemy of enemies. He will find harder to enact foreign policy without the cooperation of every armed service, all of whose chiefs put out a joint statement denouncing racism. He will find it harder to get any legislation passed if any of those in Congress who are finding this pill too bitter to swallow actually follow up their words with actions. I agree he’s playing to his base. Of course he is. He has only one card, hating stuff the base hates, so he keeps playing it. As long as that’s an ace he wins. The question remains: is that card now a king or queen or ten or five? If so, is playing it so frequently a miscalculation? I don’t know. It hasn’t been before. Nazis, though. Nazis might change everything. We always knew that the real base, you know, deplorables, were Nazis - at least Nazi equivalents for our time - but never allowed to say so out loud. Now it can be said. It will be said, over and over. That’s unprecedented. Unprecedented things create unprecedented changes. Those are exquisitely hard to predict, but it’s just as hard to see how they could be positive for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/237 "2017-08-18T04:16:26Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Who is everybody? The news shows that needed a new topic after a week? It’s all I’m seeing in the media, and the media shapes public opinion. Confederate monuments are absolutely about white supremacy, but his supporters don’t understand or care about that. If they had a chance for their eyes to be opened to the rise of white supremacy in this country, it wasn’t through confederate monuments. It was through Nazis fucking marching in the streets, and holding rallies all over the country, and killing and wounding innocent people. He changed the thrust of the entire dialog and now he won’t shut up about monuments. And now liberals are writing blogs about what monuments should be taken down, so that conservatives can think liberals have nothing better to do than take down monuments. See [this Federalist article.](http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17/heres-list-monuments-liberals-want-tear-far/) To put it another way, there are more people against Nazis than there are against taking down Confederate monuments. In fact, there is little popular support for taking down monuments. By shifting the dialog he’s galvanized the right against the left. He turned us from being on the morally correct side of anti-racism to being on the ‘‘wrong’’ side of tearing down monuments. > [@](#): > > Now it can be said. It will be said, over and over. That’s unprecedented. Unprecedented things create unprecedented changes. Those are exquisitely hard to predict, but it’s just as hard to see how they could be positive for Trump. I feel like he’s been doing unprecedentedly horrible shit since he started running for election. I’m not holding my breath for his supporters to do anything but continue supporting him. But if the decent GOP folks in office take a hard-lined stance, maybe some good work can be done. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/238 "2017-08-18T04:17:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I love some of the magazine covers, too…45 using a KKK hood as a megaphone is perfect. Just wait until you see the [New Yorker cover](http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/347013-new-yorker-cover-depicts-trump-sailing-with-the-klan) just coming out. A-sailing we will go! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/239 "2017-08-18T04:29:14Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He turned us from being on the morally correct side of anti-racism to being on the ‘‘wrong’’ side of tearing down monuments. In case it’s not clear, I’m talking about the narrative that Trump is pushing and his followers are swallowing, not actual reality. The left hasn’t actually shifted away from being anti-racist, he’s just shifted the perception that what we’re pissed off about is beautiful historical monuments, not the entire racist legacy of institutionalized slavery, which includes racist monuments. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/240 "2017-08-18T05:06:42Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > So did you get the job? > > (I can relate to your anecdote, having similarly placed my foot in my mouth on various sadly memorable occasions.) No. I think I mentally threw in the towel after that answer. There’s just no good way to recover when you call yourself a Nazi in a Jewish community center. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=13)