# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/241 "2017-08-18T05:08:31Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Just wait until you see the [New Yorker cover](http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/347013-new-yorker-cover-depicts-trump-sailing-with-the-klan) just coming out. A-sailing we will go! A picture is truly worth a thousand words. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/242 "2017-08-18T06:16:35Z")
Donā€™t much care for the drawing in that cover: Trumpā€™s face, the three white lines etc. The Economist has the same basic [idea](http://www.economist.com/printedition/covers/2017-08-17/ap-e-eu-la-me-na-uk)executed much better. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/243 "2017-08-18T09:50:17Z")
The line from the other side of the internet basically boils down to: ā€œTrump said something outrageous at the press conference so the media would run it, then tricked the leftists into supporting getting rid of statues of Washington and Jefferson to start setting up the battlefield for the midterm.ā€ If I could fire everyone who unironically spoke of Trump playing 4D chess out of a cannon into the sun, I think I would. These people seem to think this makes it fine that Trump called neo-nazis good people, because it was just a part of his plan. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/244 "2017-08-18T12:00:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > No. I think I mentally threw in the towel after that answer. Thereā€™s just no good way to recover when you call yourself a Nazi in a Jewish community center. Quitter! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/245 "2017-08-18T13:59:14Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > No. I think I mentally threw in the towel after that answer. Thereā€™s just no good way to recover when you call yourself a Nazi in a Jewish community center. Especially for a communications position. Ouch! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/246 "2017-08-18T15:49:10Z")
> [@](#): > > If Mueller uncovers some serious dirt on Trump, e.g. Russia-related financial crimes, I think Trump could be impeached in six months. There is a common misunderstanding that impeachment will only happen if there is some huge moral awakening on the part of the Republican congress. In reality, all it needs is the calculation that their interests are better served by a President Pence. We are not far from that point. Again, letā€™s hope not. If the GOP tries to impeach Trump we need an adequate minority of the Democrats to rally around our President. If a core of Democrats (and Gopsters?) can find 34 Senators for Trump, he will be grateful (and call this the biggest acquittal ever.) _A President, even as crippled as Trump will be, who is embittered at the GOP and will thus turn to the Democrats out of spite_\*\* is much better for the country\*\*\* than a Pence-Ryan tyranny, frolicking in glee to be rid of its unwanted baggage\*, the pompous carnival barker who outwore his welcome in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/247 "2017-08-18T15:52:24Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Itā€™s all Iā€™m seeing in the media, and the media shapes public opinion. Confederate monuments are absolutely about white supremacy, but his supporters donā€™t understand or care about that. If they had a chance for their eyes to be opened to the rise of white supremacy in this country, it wasnā€™t through confederate monuments. It was through Nazis fucking marching in the streets, and holding rallies all over the country, and killing and wounding innocent people. He changed the thrust of the entire dialog and now he wonā€™t shut up about monuments. And now liberals are writing blogs about what monuments should be taken down, so that conservatives can think liberals have nothing better to do than take down monuments. See [this Federalist article.](http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17/heres-list-monuments-liberals-want-tear-far/) > > To put it another way, there are more people against Nazis than there are against taking down Confederate monuments. In fact, there is little popular support for taking down monuments. By shifting the dialog heā€™s galvanized the right against the left. He turned us from being on the morally correct side of anti-racism to being on the ā€˜ā€˜wrongā€™ā€™ side of tearing down monuments. > I feel like heā€™s been doing unprecedentedly horrible shit since he started running for election. Iā€™m not holding my breath for his supporters to do anything but continue supporting him. But if the decent GOP folks in office take a hard-lined stance, maybe some good work can be done. There is always going to be another outrage. Each week is the worst week of Trumpā€™s presidency to the media and he contributes by giving them raw meat. Remember last weekā€™s outrage? Only threatening nuclear holocaust on North Korea. We thought that was a high bar\*, but Trump easily cleared it. Are nazis worse than nuclear war? In our weird reality, yes. Nobody thought Trump would order an actual strike. That was posturing. The real Trump believes in white supremacy, though, and he finally made that clear to the thickest heads. Those thickheads are the topic of this thread. The base are constant and therefore irrelevant. Itā€™s all the politicians, businessmen, and moneymen (I use men deliberately; has a Republican woman hit the news this week?) who see the support of Nazis as a killer issue in American politics. Theyā€™re not going to enter the Confederate statue controversy: both sides are poison to them. Breaking from Trump over Nazis is perhaps the only thing that is truly irrevocable. Barring a national disaster during which ā€œwe must all rally around the Presidentā€ returning to Trumpā€™s table will hurt their images. People will rightly ask, ā€œwhat about the Nazisā€ at that point. What about the Nazis? Thatā€™s a Democratic slogan that might win a few votes. \*Why do we always come back to the imagery of high bars and low bars with Trump? Is it that weā€™re secretly wishing to see him behind vertical bars, in the federal prison of choice? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/248 "2017-08-18T15:54:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Again, letā€™s hope not. If the GOP tries to impeach Trump we need an adequate minority of the Democrats to rally around our President. If a core of Democrats (and Gopsters?) can find 34 Senators for Trump, he will be grateful (and call this the biggest acquittal ever.) _A President, even as crippled as Trump will be, who is embittered at the GOP and will thus turn to the Democrats out of spite_\*\* is much better for the country\*\*\* than a Pence-Ryan tyranny, frolicking in glee to be rid of its unwanted baggage\*, the pompous carnival barker who outwore his welcome in the Oval Office. Thatā€™s the same kind of thinking as staring at the sun before the eclipse and believing you will get a pot of gold rather than go blind. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/249 "2017-08-18T15:56:35Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Again, letā€™s hope not. If the GOP tries to impeach Trump we need an adequate minority of the Democrats to rally around our President. If a core of Democrats (and Gopsters?) can find 34 Senators for Trump, he will be grateful (and call this the biggest acquittal ever.) _A President, even as crippled as Trump will be, who is embittered at the GOP and will thus turn to the Democrats out of spite_\*\* is much better for the country\*\*\* than a Pence-Ryan tyranny, frolicking in glee to be rid of its unwanted baggage\*, the pompous carnival barker who outwore his welcome in the Oval Office. Iā€™d take Pence-Ryan over Trump any day. Incompetent populism is much scarier to me than bad policy. [QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Those thickheads are the topic of this thread. The base are constant and therefore irrelevant. Itā€™s all the politicians, businessmen, and moneymen (I use men deliberately; has a Republican woman hit the news this week?) who see the support of Nazis as a killer issue in American politics. Theyā€™re not going to enter the Confederate statue controversy: both sides are poison to them. Breaking from Trump over Nazis is perhaps the only thing that is truly irrevocable. [/QUOTE] Oh, well in that case, it does appear to be a game-changer, at least so far as not a single one will defend him. Some of them still seem reticent to call him out by name, which is weak-sauce, but itā€™s definitely shifted something among the upper ranks. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/250 "2017-08-18T15:56:46Z")
But Mama, thatā€™s where the fun is! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/251 "2017-08-18T16:01:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Again, letā€™s hope not. If the GOP tries to impeach Trump we need an adequate minority of the Democrats to rally around our President. If a core of Democrats (and Gopsters?) can find 34 Senators for Trump, he will be grateful You want America to pin its hopes on Trump feeling gratitude? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/252 "2017-08-18T16:34:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Again, letā€™s hope not. If the GOP tries to impeach Trump we need an adequate minority of the Democrats to rally around our President. If a core of Democrats (and Gopsters?) can find 34 Senators for Trump, he will be grateful (and call this the biggest acquittal ever.) _A President, even as crippled as Trump will be, who is embittered at the GOP and will thus turn to the Democrats out of spite_\*\* is much better for the country\*\*\* than a Pence-Ryan tyranny, frolicking in glee to be rid of its unwanted baggage\*, the pompous carnival barker who outwore his welcome in the Oval Office. No. I utterly reject this. There is a difference between being wrong, even fucking wrong, even hatefully wrong, and breaking every norm and every protective limit. Pence and Ryan would change the laws. Trump is poisoning the countryā€™s respect for self and other. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/253 "2017-08-18T16:40:06Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > No. I utterly reject this. > > There is a difference between being wrong, even fucking wrong, even hatefully wrong, and breaking every norm and every protective limit. Pence and Ryan would change the laws. Trump is poisoning the countryā€™s respect for self and other. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/254 "2017-08-18T17:34:16Z")
Susan Bro is my new hero. When Trump announced that heā€™d be calling her, I wished she wouldnā€™t pick up the phone but that there was no chance she wouldnā€™t. (Of course, if I saw Trump drowning Iā€™d pull out a lawn chair and the Orvilleā€™s and sing The Star-Spangled Banner between munches as he went down for the third timeā€¦but thatā€™s me.) Well, guess what? [Mother of Charlottesville victim says she wonā€™t speak with Trump](http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/politics/heather-heyer-susan-bro-donald-trump/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/255 "2017-08-18T18:19:47Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > No. I utterly reject this. > > There is a difference between being wrong, even fucking wrong, even hatefully wrong, and breaking every norm and every protective limit. Pence and Ryan would change the laws. Trump is poisoning the countryā€™s respect for self and other. Using a country as a plane analogy, Pence and Ryan may not pilot the plane to the destination I want to go, but at least they know how to fly. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/256 "2017-08-18T18:25:54Z")
492-dimensional chess: 4 days after going full White Supremist, Trump fires head WS Steve Bannon. Bannon: 1. Can reasonably argue ā€œI put you in that seat, I can take you out of it!ā€ 2. Owns a media empire 3. Drinks 4. Is likely super-pissed right now. We know that whenever somebody gets trdumped, there is a rash of leaks the two weeks followingā€¦ what the hell is going to happen now is up to anyoneā€™s guess. Iā€™ve heard that the Long Knives of Breitbart will be put to use in attacking Kelly/McMaster and that Bannon still has Trumpā€™s ear, Iā€™ve also heard it is open season on DJT for his Nazi flip-flops. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/257 "2017-08-18T18:36:06Z")
Jared Kushner has to be bracing for impact. Bannon reportedly hates him, and the alt-right brownshirts arenā€™t too keen on him either. And thereā€™s one other thingā€¦ oh, yeah, heā€™s Jewish. With Bannon now off the leash, Kushner is bound to be one of the alt-rightā€™s primary targets. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/258 "2017-08-18T18:36:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 492-dimensional chess: > > 4 days after going full White Supremist, Trump fires head WS Steve Bannon. Bannon: > > ā€¦ Best news Iā€™ve heard in quite some time. [http://www.npr.org/2017/08/18/523778912/reports-steve-bannon-out-as-chief-white-house-strategist](http://www.npr.org/2017/08/18/523778912/reports-steve-bannon-out-as-chief-white-house-strategist) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/259 "2017-08-18T18:43:36Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Using a country as a plane analogy, Pence and Ryan may not pilot the plane to the destination I want to go, but at least they know how to fly. No, no, a thousand times no. Trump is not allowed to crash the plane until he takes the entire Republican Party with it. A Republican party without Trump dragging it down is a million times worse for the future of the country. Every Democrat needs to get that straight in their heads. No impeachment, no resignation, no 25th Amendment. Keep Trump around until the thought of ever electing another Republican to any position is unthinkable. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/260 "2017-08-18T19:13:58Z")
> [@I need to get a summer job--suggestions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-need-to-get-a-summer-job-suggestions/105911/4): > > Trump is not allowed to crash the plane until he takes the entire Republican Party with it. A Republican party without Trump dragging it down is a million times worse for the future of the country. Every Democrat needs to get that straight in their heads. No impeachment, no resignation, no 25th Amendment. Keep Trump around until the thought of ever electing another Republican to any position is unthinkable. But thatā€™s just it - Republicans impeaching and then removing Trump would tear the Republican Party apart. Particularly if there is no smoking gun evidence of any collusion on Trump himselfā€™s part or if there is only evidence of some abstract financial crime. Of all the presidents who were impeached or were about to be impeached, Andrew Johnson, Nixon, and Clinton, all were impeached (or about to be) by a Congress controlled by another party. Johnson was historically a Democrat and the Lincoln/Johnson ticket in the 1864 election was listed as under the National Union ticket, not the Republicans. So, it would historically be unprecedented for a party controlling Congress to impeach (let alone remove) a president of their own party. It would split the base, potentially irrevocably. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=14)