# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/281 "2017-08-19T21:08:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You do realize that different things can share some properties? For example a cat is not a fish. Yet they both share several properties. > > So, condemning the violence and the violent rhetoric of the nutty Antifa and the nutty Nazis is actually a legitimate view. Of course that doesn’t suit people’s political goals so they will obfuscate and use poor logic. But hell, even, Noam Chomsky sees Antifa as counterproductive. > > [http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/noam-chomsky-antifa-is-a-major-gift-to-the-right/article/2631786](http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/noam-chomsky-antifa-is-a-major-gift-to-the-right/article/2631786) > > Of course some won’t be satisfied until we have our very own [Reign of Terror - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror). Three preposterous false equivalencies in one post. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/282 "2017-08-20T10:41:33Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Around 35-40 percent of Americans are either white supremacists themselves, or are willing to tolerate white supremacists as long as they get tax cuts and religious zealots on the Supreme Court. That number shoots up to just over 50% of the members of Congress. > > Nothing has changed. The white supremacists, emboldened by Trump’s failure to condemn them, will stage more rallies. They will bring more guns. Counter protesters will come with weapons too. Second Amendment solutions all around. These confrontations will get steadily bloodier, and Trump will not intervene. > > And a few representatives or senators will express grave concern while going about the business of making sure money moves to the right people. What source says this? Around 35-40 are either white supremacists themselves, or are willing to tolerate white supremacists ? That is B()ll&hit. Who is at these events? Just a fraction of the population, less than 1%. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/283 "2017-08-20T13:49:37Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Every time I see that line I start imagining a Mel Brooks/Zucker Brothers movie scene with a torch-n-club wielding mob stopping short and showing a little man at a little desk an official permit to be very very violent, before charging into the fray. Not exactly the same but one of my favorite “The Far Side” of all time. [https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d0/b1/5c/d0b15c1fc70b9220c5ad5a57e455e05f--gary-larson-the-far-side.jpg](https://i.pinimg.com/236x/d0/b1/5c/d0b15c1fc70b9220c5ad5a57e455e05f--gary-larson-the-far-side.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/284 "2017-08-20T13:58:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Meanwhile the sad fact is that Trump’s unpopularity in polling data, both Gallup and across the board, has NOT increased further over these last several days of relative pandering to overt racism, anti-Semitism, and hatemongering. His disapproval on Gallup has dropped four points on Gallup over the past four days and approval is up by the same. And roughly 3 in 4 Republicans still approve of the job he is doing. > > If it is GOP civil war I am not so sure that Trump will lose. Yeah, it’s not at all clear that he would lose. It’ll be interesting to see what direction Trump goes in now that Bannon is out of the White House. It could be that Trump tries to become a slightly more conventional republican and builds a pro-business, anti-tax, anti-regulation coalition that would be rather formidable. But I don’t know if he has anyone around him who knows how to work with Congress. Preibus might have been that guy but he’s obviously out of the picture now. If he were smart, he’d probably find a former GOP congressman-turned-lobbyist who could smooth things over between the White House and Congress. As to your point above, I think Trump does have a floor with racists. There’s a significant percentage of Republicans who are either outright racist or who have deep racial anxieties. More than half of the party, I’d guess, and perhaps significantly more. His poll numbers might look bad, but poll numbers on approval rating are completely different from how candidates and parties stack up in one-on-one election contests. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/285 "2017-08-20T14:06:41Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > What source says this? Around 35-40 are either white supremacists themselves, or are willing to tolerate white supremacists ? > > That is B()ll&hit. > > Who is at these events? Just a fraction of the population, less than 1%. Don’t just look at Charlottesville; look at the election on November 8th, 2016. Donald Trump was the favored candidate of racists like David Duke for a reason. People knew what they were voting for. That doesn’t mean everyone who voted for Trump is a racist, but they knew he had violated all kinds of taboos with regard to race in a modern, post-1960s presidential election and they voted for him anyway. So at minimum, that tells me that their concern for his racist sympathies was rather low. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/286 "2017-08-20T17:24:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yeah, it’s not at all clear that he would lose. It’ll be interesting to see what direction Trump goes in now that Bannon is out of the White House. It could be that Trump tries to become a slightly more conventional republican and builds a pro-business, anti-tax, anti-regulation coalition that would be rather formidable. … You astound me. I consider you one of the most sensible and articulate Dopers. I can’t believe you still think Trump is capable of behaving like a normal human being, let alone a normal President. Conventional? Coalition? Based on what?? The man thrives on chaos and conflict, does not trust anyone (except family), and will not take direction or advice because he believes that he knows more than anyone and cannot make a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/287 "2017-08-27T23:31:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > This has been a right-wing talking point for quite a while, now. You may not realize how ridiculous such chest-thumping makes you look. Partly because we’ve all had a good look at the “militias,” and partly because of what is likely to occur if Trump stays in office. > > If you don’t think Trump will call for violence next Tuesday in Phoenix–right after pardoning Arpaio–then you haven’t been paying attention. He will call on the neo-Nazis and other pro-violence right-wingers in attendance to Take Back Our Country. He may even call for the removal-by-violence of Arizona’s two GOP Senators, who’ve each become ‘enemies’ in his eyes (that would be John McCain and Jeff Flake). > > Blood in the streets is far more likely if Trump _remains_ President than if Trump is removed from office. Trump has no reason to call for violence. He can’t make money from this or receive louder plaudits of the crowd at a campaign rally or even reverse something Obama did. He has no interest in white supremacy as an ideology, he just likes its supporters, because they voted for him and cheer him. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/288 "2017-08-28T00:33:06Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Trump has no reason to call for violence. He can’t make money from this or receive louder plaudits of the crowd at a campaign rally or even reverse something Obama did. He has no interest in white supremacy as an ideology, he just likes its supporters, because they voted for him and cheer him. Trump calls violence because he is a petty small man who hates when anyone stands up to it. Trying to look for a sound “reason” is completely misreading him. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/289 "2017-08-28T01:00:21Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Trump has no reason to call for violence. He can’t make money from this or receive louder plaudits of the crowd at a campaign rally or even reverse something Obama did. He has no interest in white supremacy as an ideology, he just likes its supporters, because they voted for him and cheer him. > [@DigitalC](#): > > Trump calls violence because he is a petty small man who hates when anyone stands up to it. Trying to look for a sound “reason” is completely misreading him. These are both fair readings, I think. Trump did implicitly call for violence that night, but against the media rather than against non-whites: > [@](#): > > But the very dishonest media, those people right up there with all the cameras. > (BOOING) > So the – and I mean truly dishonest people in the media and the fake media, they make up stories. > … I’m really doing this to show you how damned dishonest these people are. > … If you’re reading a story about somebody, you don’t know. You assume it’s honest, because it’s like the failing New York Times, which is like so bad. It’s so bad. > (BOOING) > Or the Washington Post, which call a lobbying tool for Amazon, OK, that’s a lobbying tool for Amazon. > Or CNN, which is so bad and so pathetic, and their ratings are going down. > (BOOING) > Right? > CROWD: CNN sucks! CNN sucks! CNN sucks! > …Because the media is totally dishonest, and they have a double standard. > … It’s time to expose the crooked media deceptions, and to challenge the media for their role in fomenting divisions. > (APPLAUSE) > And yes, by the way – and yes, by the way, they are trying to take away our history and our heritage. You see that. > (BOOING) > … These are truly dishonest people. And not all of them. Not all of them. You have some very good reporters. You have some very fair journalists. But for the most part, honestly, these are really, really dishonest people, and they’re bad people. And I really think they don’t like our country. I really believe that. > … If you want to discover the source of the division in our country, look no further than the fake news and the crooked media… > (APPLAUSE) > … Not only does the media give a platform to hate groups, but the media turns a blind eye to the gang violence on our streets, the failures of our public school, the destruction of our wealth at the hands of the terrible, terrible trade deals made by politicians that should’ve never been allowed to be politicians. > … [Trump’s 2017 Phoenix, Arizona Rally Full Speech Transcript | TIME](http://time.com/4912055/donald-trump-phoenix-arizona-transcript/) Of course Trump didn’t say ‘go out and beat up a journalist.’ But he certainly put in a lot of effort to make the case that journalists are very, very bad people who are working hard to harm the country. What possible response could a true patriot have? One commentary: > [@](#): > > The media has become for the right what the Soviet Union was during the Cold War—a common, unifying adversary of overwhelming importance. Before the fall of the Berlin Wall, religious conservatives and libertarians could agree that, whatever their other differences, godless communism had to be resisted. This commitment was the glue of the GOP coalition, and the basic price of admission to conservatism. > > Now, a policy of containment, preferably rollback, of the mainstream media occupies that central role. Trump may not know how to get anything done, may not have a well-developed philosophy, may not be delivering on his agenda, may not be an admirable person, but he’s a righteous, unyielding warrior against the media. [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/23/trump-media-enemy-republicans-215526](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/23/trump-media-enemy-republicans-215526) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/290 "2017-08-28T13:32:23Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > Trump has no reason to call for violence. He can’t make money from this or receive louder plaudits of the crowd at a campaign rally or even reverse something Obama did. He has no interest in white supremacy as an ideology, he just likes its supporters, because they voted for him and cheer him. He has a vested interest in white supremacy. He’s a racist from back in the days when his apartments put a little “C” on the applications of black prospective tenants so that they could be rejected. He’s a racist from whom his casinos have to hide all the black employees whenever he comes down to the floor. He’s a racist who cut his political teeth in the racist lie of birtherism and praised the felon Arpaio for spending Arizona resources to Hawaii to try to prove a racist lie. He’s a racist who said the Mexican government sends us their rapists and thieves and murderers. I think he credentials as a white supremacist are impeccable. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/291 "2017-08-29T13:28:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > He has a vested interest in white supremacy. He’s a racist from back in the days when his apartments put a little “C” on the applications of black prospective tenants so that they could be rejected. He’s a racist from whom his casinos have to hide all the black employees whenever he comes down to the floor. He’s a racist who cut his political teeth in the racist lie of birtherism and praised the felon Arpaio for spending Arizona resources to Hawaii to try to prove a racist lie. He’s a racist who said the Mexican government sends us their rapists and thieves and murderers. I think he credentials as a white supremacist are impeccable. To be clear, I agree that he’s personally a racist, I just don’t think he cares enough about white supremacy as an ideology to put any effort beyond occasional tweeting/speechifying into furthering it. The only things he appears to care about enough to actually expend real effort are making money, inflating his ego, and attacking his ‘enemies’. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/292 "2017-08-29T14:15:14Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > To be clear, I agree that he’s personally a racist, I just don’t think he cares enough about white supremacy as an ideology to put any effort beyond occasional tweeting/speechifying into furthering it. The only things he appears to care about enough to actually expend real effort are making money, inflating his ego, and attacking his ‘enemies’. I agree. He has no principles except self-aggrandizement and making money. That’s it. He doesn’t care about any ideology past whatever immediate notoriety (i.e., “ratings”) he gets from it and will turn instantly like a greased weathervane in the direction that keeps him on the front page and/or furthers the Trump Financial Empire. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/293 "2017-08-29T21:35:55Z")
I too agree. But the problem is that when his aggrandizement comes mostly from him saying things that make the white supremacists cheer him loudly, those same statements cause those same supremacists to do other things in the world. Things like lynch, burn, protest, etc. And to the degree those yahoos become more politically vocal, more politicians will emerge to seek those votes. If things continue in the direction they are going today I will not be surprised to see 30 or even 60 Trump mini-me’s running for various white rural congressional seats. And given the demographics in the seat they’ll choose, it’s not inconceivable that they’ll have decent success in getting elected. The bottom line being that Trump’s seeking aggrandizement doesn’t just end with that warm feeling in the center of his lizard brain. It has large and growing effects in the outside world. Trump, whether wittingly or not, is rapidly moving the Overton window in a new and very dangerous direction. That Ouija doesn’t just move on the traditional left/right dimension. It also moves along the +/- authoritarian direction and the +/- racial tolerance direction. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/294 "2017-08-29T22:04:15Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I too agree. > > But the problem is that when his aggrandizement comes mostly from him saying things that make the white supremacists cheer him loudly, those same statements cause those same supremacists to do other things in the world. Things like lynch, burn, protest, etc. > > And to the degree those yahoos become more politically vocal, more politicians will emerge to seek those votes. > > If things continue in the direction they are going today I will not be surprised to see 30 or even 60 Trump mini-me’s running for various white rural congressional seats. And given the demographics in the seat they’ll choose, it’s not inconceivable that they’ll have decent success in getting elected. > The bottom line being that Trump’s seeking aggrandizement doesn’t just end with that warm feeling in the center of his lizard brain. It has large and growing effects in the outside world. > > Trump, whether wittingly or not, is rapidly moving the Overton window in a new and very dangerous direction. That Ouija doesn’t just move on the traditional left/right dimension. It also moves along the +/- authoritarian direction and the +/- racial tolerance direction. You are correct. The fact that he has no principles, no inner core beliefs, and refuses to take any position that might lose him a vote has completely legitimized white supremacist behavior. He has no understanding of the role of the president as a moral leader and if he did, he still wouldn’t want anything to do with it because that would require possibly alienating some voter somewhere. He is a tower of slimy jell-o. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=14)