# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/21 "2017-08-13T17:54:34Z")
Basking in bigotry \*requires \*lack of thought and understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/22 "2017-08-13T17:55:20Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Obama kinda played the same game with Islamic terrorism, he did not mention it by name often enough. Obama got away with it for years, I think Trump probably will too. I think the most important thing here is that a Trump led Federal Government prosecutes Right wing terrorism with the adequate might & backing of government resources. It’s legal prosecution here that is more important than Presidential condemnation, but even so the President has condemned this act. He just hasn’t condemned it in the way _some_ would prefer. > > Having said all that I do think he should have mentioned the group by name. I just don’t think his inability to do so is as important as some are suggesting. Obama denounced individual acts of terrorism constantly. Maybe he didn’t condemn them in the way some people preferred _cough_islamic terrorism_cough_ but you always knew which side he was against and he never, ever, did what Trump just did, which equated Nazis and victims. I have no idea what “group” you are talking about. To be fair, I’m pretty sure you don’t either. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Many will denounce, and some already have denounced, this particular bit of mealy mouthedness. But they’ll still continue to support him, by and large. It’s not an either/or proposition. “This time” really is either/or. That’s the entire definition of this time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/23 "2017-08-13T17:59:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > “This time” really is either/or. That’s the entire definition of this time. No, it’s not. That might be your definition, but that’s not the way I use it. But if you insist on using it that way, then I’ll just simply say that this time is not “this time”. People will condemn it, but will continue to support him. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/24 "2017-08-13T18:00:09Z")
Bobot wrote: “Why people have a tough time understanding this is baffling.” Not to me. They actually DO understand it, at least their “leadership” does. Use of the term constitutes the sort of unproductive chest-thumping that appeals to their red-meat base but actually _accomplishes_ nothing concrete and even has negative counter effects. Among the documents seized in the raid that killed Bin Laden was a one stating how much harder a time Al Quida had attracting recruits since Obama became president. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/25 "2017-08-13T18:08:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Obama denounced individual acts of terrorism constantly. Maybe he didn’t condemn them in the way some people preferred _cough_islamic terrorism_cough_ but you always knew which side he was against and he never, ever, did what Trump just did, which equated Nazis and victims. > > **I have no idea what “group” you are talking about. To be fair, I’m pretty sure you don’t either.** > “This time” really is either/or. That’s the entire definition of this time. No, I don’t know which group I mean. Perhaps because I don’t know for sure which group(s) this attacker is officially linked to. Im assuming if he is linked to a group it is one of the few usual suspects. It’s something I expect POTUS to have better info on than I do. Saying Trump equated Nazi’s with victims shows your partisanship here. The victims here are the 2 score or so injured or killed. The victims are not Antifa as a whole. I think we are seeing a collective wallowing in mass victimhood here. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/26 "2017-08-13T18:16:25Z")
No, white supremacists are his base. He will stay at his current floor in approval, but go no lower. If he condemned white nationalists, he’d lose his base, but not gain any support among the rest of America. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/27 "2017-08-13T18:18:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > No, I don’t know which group I mean. Perhaps because I don’t know for sure which group(s) this attacker is officially linked to. Yeah, [there’s no way of knowing](https://www.facebook.com/roy.reeves.754) if he is a rabid Trump supporter. Unless you can trust [his mother](http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-charlottesville-suspect-knew-rallyi-thought-trump/story?id=49185691). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/28 "2017-08-13T18:24:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > No, white supremacists are his base. He will stay at his current floor in approval, but go no lower. If he condemned white nationalists, he’d lose his base, but not gain any support among the rest of America. And that’s likely what Steve Bannon is telling him. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/29 "2017-08-13T18:29:20Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Saying Trump equated Nazi’s with victims shows your partisanship here. The victims here are the 2 score or so injured or killed. The victims are not Antifa as a whole. I think we are seeing a collective wallowing in mass victimhood here. Trump’s actual words were “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.” That cannot possibly be parsed as denouncing solely neo-Nazis and white supremacists. The victims were peacefully protesting. Using the term “Antifa” is more partisan than anything I could have come up with. Equating all protesters with the tiny, secretive, violent group is ironically similar to wanting Obama to use the term Islamic terrorism so as to slander an entire widespread set of individuals. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/30 "2017-08-13T18:29:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yeah, [there’s no way of knowing](https://www.facebook.com/roy.reeves.754) if he is a rabid Trump supporter. Unless you can trust [his mother](http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-charlottesville-suspect-knew-rallyi-thought-trump/story?id=49185691). You are interpreting his mother’s vague statement that she thought her son went to a rally that “had something to do with Trump” as “he was a rabid Trump supporter”? Talk about a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/31 "2017-08-13T18:34:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Yeah, [there’s no way of knowing](https://www.facebook.com/roy.reeves.754) if he is a rabid Trump supporter. Unless you can trust [his mother](http://abcnews.go.com/US/mother-charlottesville-suspect-knew-rallyi-thought-trump/story?id=49185691). I said nothing about who he supported. I specifically said groups he was linked to. By linked to I mean groups he joined, or was in contact with. You are deliberately trying to re-interpret what I posted. You are not posting in anything like good faith. At no point in this convo did I attempt to link Antifa violence with support for Obama, Bernie or Hillary. However, I will be tempted to do so in future. It’s now an acceptable tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/32 "2017-08-13T18:34:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, it’s not. That might be your definition, but that’s not the way I use it. If “this time” doesn’t mean “that’s it, I can’t do this any longer, I’m cutting off support” what meaning can it have? I’m serious. I literally can’t imagine how you are using it otherwise. It can’t possibly mean, “I disagree with/dislike/shake my head at” because everybody does that all the time with politicians/parties/wings. It has to mean a final parting of the ways or else nobody would need the term. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/33 "2017-08-13T18:38:02Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Saying Trump equated Nazi’s with victims shows your partisanship here. The victims here are the 2 score or so injured or killed. The victims are not Antifa as a whole. I think we are seeing a collective wallowing in mass victimhood here. So then those other Republicans who are already mentioned who said the same thing are liberals? Nice to know. If anything, I’d say this post does. You see actual victims, and you’re still going on about “mass victimhood.” A Nazi _ **terrorist** _ killed people and you’re blaming the other side for victimhood. And I will point out that hatred for Trump is bipartisan. It’s not political at all. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/34 "2017-08-13T18:39:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Trump’s actual words were “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.” That cannot possibly be parsed as denouncing solely neo-Nazis and white supremacists. > > The victims were peacefully protesting. Using the term “Antifa” is more partisan than anything I could have come up with. Equating all protesters with the tiny, secretive, violent group is ironically similar to wanting Obama to use the term Islamic terrorism so as to slander an entire widespread set of individuals. Funny how that works. Im pretty sure all the victims that day were not Antifa or peaceful leftist protestors. Im pretty certain that numerous Nazis/white supremacists and indeed innocent bystanders went home in less than tip top condition. Pretty confident some went home in worse condition than a number of those caught up in the car attack. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/35 "2017-08-13T18:41:37Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I said nothing about who he supported. I specifically said groups he was linked to. By linked to I mean groups he joined, or was in contact with. You are deliberately trying to re-interpret what I posted. You are not posting in anything like good faith. At no point in this convo did I attempt to link Antifa violence with support for Obama, Bernie or Hillary. However, I will be tempted to do so in future. It’s now an acceptable tactic. The guy goes to a White Nationalist rally, in support of their agenda. I’d say that definitely counts as ‘contact’. You seem to be suggesting that one ‘supports’ a ‘cause’ or group only by being a card-carrying member. You are not posting in good faith. And ‘antifa’ has been co-opted by the American fascist movement. It originally meant ‘anti-fascist’. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/36 "2017-08-13T18:44:29Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > He did take a stand on it. He condemned it. Stop trying to rewrite the narrative here. We all heard what he said and didn’t say. I have problems with what he didn’t say, but that problem was not lack of condemnation. Here you go op, right here: proof of concept. This poster doesn’t see a whit of difference between this latest act of incomprehensible incompetence and irresponsibility by Trump, and still actively defends him. The bulk of the rest of Trumps declining supporters will do the same. This is the case, because TRUMP HAS NOT CHANGED. He has ALWAYS been this person, always been callous, always been dismissive of the pain that others go through, and always been oblivious to his own prejudices and hatreds of most Americans. This actually serves to INCREASE the support of the people who elected him. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/37 "2017-08-13T18:48:29Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I said nothing about who he supported. I specifically said groups he was linked to. By linked to I mean groups he joined, or was in contact with. You are deliberately trying to re-interpret what I posted. You are not posting in anything like good faith. At no point in this convo did I attempt to link Antifa violence with support for Obama, Bernie or Hillary. However, I will be tempted to do so in future. It’s now an acceptable tactic. This is stupid. Who you support is part of how you determine what group someone is in. Throw in stated racist beliefs, and it is very clear he is a Nazi. Throw in that he came to a Nazi protest and he deliberately attacked the counter protesters, and it’s a slam dunk. You’re doing weaseling about the situation. You’re trying to defend the guy who courted Nazis. Also, Antifa are a boogeyman. They are mostly just anti-Nazi protesters. I wouldn’t care if you connected them with anyone, because they aren’t all evil, unlike what the right wing news would have you believe. Nazis are all evil. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/38 "2017-08-13T18:50:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > So then those other Republicans who are already mentioned who said the same thing are liberals? Nice to know. > > If anything, I’d say this post does. You see actual victims, and you’re still going on about “mass victimhood.” A Nazi _ **terrorist** _ killed people and you’re blaming the other side for victimhood. > > And I will point out that hatred for Trump is bipartisan. It’s not political at all. Yes, the other side can be guilty of wallowing in mass victimhood. It’s quite obvious that a community under attack can and does wallow in victimhood. Those recent terrorist attacks from Islamists in the UK; you don’t think some EDL types were wallowing in that? Or when Steve Scalise was attacked by a Bernie Bro DEMOCRAT; you don’t think it in the slightest bit possible that various Right leaning internet forums were wallowing in that stuff? Nah, that’s totally impossible. It would _never_ happen. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/39 "2017-08-13T18:56:14Z")
Yeah, Trump supporters are the absolute dregs of society, he can’t gain the support of decent people at this point, so he’s stuck. The question is, Dothe Republicans finally jump off and what does this mean for possible impeachment and removal? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/40 "2017-08-13T19:17:35Z")
Ronald Reagan was known as “the Teflon President” because nothing ever stuck to him. Trump seems to have acquired a liberal coating of the stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=3)