# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/41 "2017-08-13T19:21:50Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Ronald Reagan was known as “the Teflon President” because nothing ever stuck to him. Trump seems to have acquired a liberal coating of the stuff. I don’t know, Reagan had generally high approval ratings and most of the bullshit until Iran Contra was out-weighed by the good he did. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/42 "2017-08-13T19:27:19Z")
I hope he has miscalculated. Some of the Republican leadership thinks he’s made a serious mistake. They have varying reasons but I’m hoping some of them realize this could lead to the GOP becoming a minority party again. Well, I hope that would be the result. Unfortunately I’m losing faith in the idea that Americans will eventually do the right thing after exhausting all the other alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/43 "2017-08-13T19:41:57Z")
The thread title suggests that Trump actually calculates—that he carefully considers what to say and do—about which I have my doubts. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/44 "2017-08-13T19:47:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I hope he has miscalculated. Some of the Republican leadership thinks he’s made a serious mistake. They have varying reasons but I’m hoping some of them realize this could lead to the GOP becoming a minority party again. Well, I hope that would be the result. Unfortunately I’m losing faith in the idea that Americans will eventually do the right thing after exhausting all the other alternatives. It doesn’t help that they are starting to identify some of the Charlottesville Nazis and finding pics of some of them with GOP politicians. Given Trump’s treatment of Sessions and his tweeting about healthcare, they might be ready to bolt. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/45 "2017-08-13T19:48:16Z")
Have any Republicans who are _not_ thinking of a primary challenge said anything against Trump’s statement yet? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/46 "2017-08-13T20:08:54Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Have any Republicans who are _not_ thinking of a primary challenge said anything against Trump’s statement yet? What do you mean? Are you asking if the only Republicans speaking against Trump are ones who are also thinking of challenging him in the GOP primary in 2020? How would we know for sure for most of them? But if so, I don’t think Oren Hatch (age 83) is planning to run for the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/47 "2017-08-13T20:13:22Z")
Or John McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/48 "2017-08-13T20:22:39Z")
The truest thing Trump ever said was “I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.” Trump understands that his supporters are not only ignorant; they’re willfully ignorant. They refuse to look at or listen to any evidence that conflicts with what they want to believe. There is no amount of evidence that will shake their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/49 "2017-08-13T20:34:19Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > …It’s legal prosecution here that is more important than Presidential condemnation, but even so the President has condemned this act. He just hasn’t condemned it in the way _some_ would prefer. > > Having said all that I do think he should have mentioned the group by name. **I just don’t think his inability to do so is as important as some are suggesting**. Well, it’s certainly important to white supremacists! Here’s what Stormfront posted, today (link isn’t to Stormfront but to a less-nasty site that quoted the post): > [@](#): > > “3:46pm: Trump comments were good. He didn’t attack us. He just said the nation should come together. Nothing specific against us. > He said that we need to study why people are so angry, and implied that there was hate… on both sides! > So he implied the antifa are haters. > There was virtually no counter-signaling of us at all. > He said he loves us all. > Also refused to answer a question about White Nationalists supporting him. > No condemnation at all. > When asked to condemn, he just walked out of the room. > Really, really good. > God bless him.” [https://thinkprogress.org/white-supremacists-cheer-trumps-response-to-charlottesville-violence-3d0d50196c52/](https://thinkprogress.org/white-supremacists-cheer-trumps-response-to-charlottesville-violence-3d0d50196c52/) So, yeah. Trump’s choice–no miscalculation in my view–really does matter; it’s wonderfully emboldening for the hate groups. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/50 "2017-08-13T21:09:36Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > It doesn’t help that they are starting to identify some of the Charlottesville Nazis and finding pics of some of them with GOP politicians. Given Trump’s treatment of Sessions and his tweeting about healthcare, they might be ready to bolt. I think his comments on Charlottesville won’t hurt him much. But his denigration of Sessions and McConnell have and likely will continue to hurt him. I wish he’d tweet something that really disses Paul Ryan – that might make the trifecta that will bring him down. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/51 "2017-08-13T22:23:04Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Where do you see this going? Is this any kind of a breaking point or can nothing ever be too low? I wouldn’t rule out an improvement in his polling over his handling of this. I’d really prefer if this wasn’t a "“Let all the poison that lurks in the mud, hatch out.” moment, but the portends aren’t promising ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/52 "2017-08-13T22:42:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > For a year and a half, people have said after every Trump outrage that this time is different. This time people will see what he really is. This time his supporters will have to denounce him. This time they’ll refuse to continue their support. > > This time Trump equates neo-Nazi hatemongers with peaceful counterprotestors and fails to label driving a car into a crowd as terrorism, even though he was extremely quick to do so when brown faces were involved. “_peaceful_ counterprotestors” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/53 "2017-08-13T23:03:21Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This time Trump equates neo-Nazi hatemongers with peaceful counterprotestors No he didn’t. He condemned violence on all sides. Therefore he did not equate violent people on one side with non-violent people on the other. Was there no violence by the counter-protesters? If there was, why aren’t you calling out Trump for not condemning them? He didn’t call out the neo-Nazis by name, but is that really necessary? Why give them the oxygen of publicity? Why not just condemn them for the violent stupid fuckwits they are? Trump doesn’t need your help. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/54 "2017-08-13T23:33:34Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > He didn’t call out the neo-Nazis by name, but is that really necessary? Why give them the oxygen of publicity? Why not just condemn them for the violent stupid fuckwits they are? In the real world of facts, Trump spent his entire campaign castigating Obama for not using the term radical Islamic terrorists. You have to name them, Trump said. Now, suddenly, when his supporters are the terrorists, you insist he not refer to them by name? You don’t see the contradiction, the hypocrisy of this stance? Here’s a compromise. Trump calls them everything the and the rest of the right called Muslims after the car attacks in Europe. No more, no less. > [@](#): > > Trump doesn’t need your help. All I want is to help Trump utterly destroy any credibility the right, the Republican party, and the conservative movement have remaining. Thanks for your assistance. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/55 "2017-08-13T23:54:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In the real world of facts, Trump spent his entire campaign castigating Obama for not using the term radical Islamic terrorists. You have to name them, Trump said. There’s no reference to that in your OP. Had there been, you would have had a point; since you didn’t, you had none. And you have not answered the question about violent counter-protesters. Were there any? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/56 "2017-08-14T00:02:16Z")
I agree that everything about the alt right should be strongly condemned as should any form of bigotry. But as far as violence goes I would guess the left has the right beat by at least 100 to 1 if you want to count physical confrontations with minor injuries. The left has been far more oppressive of the first amendment rights of the far right by a very large margin. They have openly engaged in all sorts of oppressive and intimidating activities again by a very large margin. This time it looks like the alt right might be more at fault. Maybe they came prepared, not excusing the murders that took place, he will and should be punished. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/57 "2017-08-14T00:09:25Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I agree that everything about the alt right should be strongly condemned as should any form of bigotry. But as far as violence goes I would guess the left has the right beat by at least 100 to 1 if you want to count physical confrontations with minor injuries. The left has been far more oppressive of the first amendment rights of the far right by a very large margin. They have openly engaged in all sorts of oppressive and intimidating activities again by a very large margin. This time it looks like the alt right might be more at fault. Maybe they came prepared, not excusing the murders that took place, he will and should be punished. I dont know about that. Now sure, with the Black Bloc anarchists (those guys wearing the black masks), the needle has certainly moved away from the Right being blamed for most violence at protests. But the skinheads and KKK and Nazis have some very violent members. > **[Black bloc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc)** > > A black bloc (sometimes black block) is a tactic used by protesters who wear black clothing, ski masks, scarves, sunglasses, motorcycle helmets with padding or other face-concealing and face-protecting items. The clothing is used to conceal wearers' identities from both the police and politically different organizations by making it difficult to distinguish between participants. It is also used to protect their faces and eyes from pepper spray, which is used by police during protests or civ The... ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/58 "2017-08-14T00:16:17Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > There’s no reference to that in your OP. Had there been, you would have had a point; since you didn’t, you had none. > > And you have not answered the question about violent counter-protesters. Were there any? I thought it was clear that I was pointing out that Trump had had almost a full day to make a comment about the car attack and that his original post hung out in the public discourse like a diarrhetic turd. For that matter he had not called the attack domestic terrorism, nor had he instructed the Justice Dept. to launch an investigation, or made a public issue out of it. By the time I made my post, his lack of follow-up was the single dominant topic in the country. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I agree that everything about the alt right should be strongly condemned as should any form of bigotry. But as far as violence goes I would guess the left has the right beat by at least 100 to 1 if you want to count physical confrontations with minor injuries. The left has been far more oppressive of the first amendment rights of the far right by a very large margin. They have openly engaged in all sorts of oppressive and intimidating activities again by a very large margin. This time it looks like the alt right might be more at fault. Maybe they came prepared, not excusing the murders that took place, he will and should be punished. Who is the left in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/59 "2017-08-14T01:47:21Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > No he didn’t. He condemned violence on all sides. Therefore he did not equate violent people on one side with non-violent people on the other. Was there no violence by the counter-protesters? If there was, why aren’t you calling out Trump for not condemning them? He didn’t call out the neo-Nazis by name, but is that really necessary? Why give them the oxygen of publicity? Why not just condemn them for the violent stupid fuckwits they are? > > Trump doesn’t need your help. Get over it. He said the same old boilerplate that every politician does in these incidents (and was probably written for him), and _somehow_ managed not to blame the perps in the process. Imagine that. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/60 "2017-08-14T02:51:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Was there no violence by the counter-protesters? I don’t know. Do you have any information that there were? Possibly bodies? Or are you “just asking questions”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=4)