# Did Trump Miscalculate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 13, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543 "2017-08-13T15:31:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/141 "2017-08-15T20:43:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Er, they are the Right Wing party, of course they will be apologetic to right wing causes. Point granted. > > Regardless, the GOP can no longer plausibly deny that white nationalists form part of their winning coalition, that their current President didn’t assist in bringing this about, and that he is, in fact, one of them. Before Trump, they could claim this with a (relatively) straight face. Now? They are the party of Nazis, white supremacists, and, depending upon how this Russia thing plays out, possibly traitors. Sorry I had to run and didn’t have time to put much time into the thought. What I meant was that the GOP, not just Trump, has been campaigning on subtler forms of racism for a while now and it hasn’t really harmed them. And the not-so-subtle racism got 60 million votes last November. I could be wrong and I sincerely would love nothing more to be wrong on this, but I suspect that this idea that “Now they get it” is going to be more evidence that a newer, more virulent and dangerous form of racism has taken root in a segment of the population that can longer be considered insignificant. There’s something terribly different and deeply troubling about the recent events in Portland and Charlottesville. Racism in America is no longer confined to frat house conversations, internet trolling, or wink-and-nod references to “food stamp presidents”; we’ve arrived at the point where, from the looks of it at least, white males from all walks of life, presumably with personal and professional reputation, feel comfortable walking around unmasked holding torch lights and waving not just confederate flags, but Nazi flags. There is no longer this fear of being labeled a racist. Even if someone gets busted, shamed, and lose your job over it, it’s entirely possible that someone with sympathy will reach out and offer support. Racism, like always, continues to be a social problem in our society, but it’s not just that; for some, it is also a cause, and a clarion call to arms. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/142 "2017-08-15T20:44:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In the past 20 minutes, Trump just came out in support of the statue, alt-right protestors, asked “What about the alt-left?”, and placed him and the GOP firmly on the side of the Confederacy and Nazi parties. > > I rest my case. The GOP brand is now inextricably linked to the Confederacy and the Nazi’s. > > (Or is it “Nazis”?) No apostrophe. I think this story will do the same thing so many previous stories have done. Those who are inclined to despise Trump will see ever more reason to despise him. Those who are indifferent will waffle unless it’s their ox, and those who love him will drop to their knees in, um, reverence. I hope to be wrong. I’ve been hoping to be wrong for quite some time now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/143 "2017-08-15T20:44:44Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The left in this case are the counterprotesters. Are you claiming that the so-called alt-Reich are denying the Left the ability to exercise peaceful free speech? If not what exactly are you claiming? The alt-Reich complain that their right of free speech is being infringed upon when people protest against their speech. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/144 "2017-08-15T20:48:55Z")
Over/under on additional CEO’s leaving his councils by end of week… 4.5 😉 ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/145 "2017-08-15T20:50:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In the past 20 minutes, Trump just came out in support of the statue, alt-right protestors, asked “What about the alt-left?”, and placed him and the GOP firmly on the side of the Confederacy and Nazi protesters. Kelly kept his head down, looking at the floor, for much of it. > > I rest my case. The GOP brand is now inextricably linked to the Confederacy and the Nazi’s. > > (Or is it “Nazis”?) As I told you guys, he is not going to change. He is putting his chips on the pile of hatred…because he pretty much has to now. The system that created legal and political norms is encircling him. He senses that even some so-called moderates in his own party might be wavering. He’s going to try to break the system altogether. That is the only way he can survive. The institutions hitherto have been strong enough to withstand the likes of Nixon, but that system was tested at a different time, with stronger social and political institutions higher standards of conduct and professionalism. The odds against him are long, but he’s going to fuck up as many people and institutions as he can going down. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/146 "2017-08-15T21:03:35Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Over/under on additional CEO’s leaving his councils by end of week… 4.5 😉 I’ve read on Twitter that Richard Trumka’s spox has made noises that he’s likely out. Campbell’s Soup (Soup Nazis!) is probably not going to stay in for long according to people who know this stuff better than I do. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/147 "2017-08-15T21:13:01Z")
Just to be clear, I think Trump could definitely be toppled, but it’s not going to be something nebulous like alleged collusion with Russia. I suspect voters knew that the Russians and Wikileaks conspired against Hillary Clinton and were 1000% fine with that – they don’t care about the Russian thing - at . all. What they might care about more is how he treats law enforcement investigators conducting a legitimate investigation into national security affairs, and they might also care more about how he views the rule of law. This is where we can start separating the #neverHillary voters from the true #MAGA-men. Going forward, what Trump will ultimately judged on, and the factors that will determine whether the investigation brings his presidency down is whether people continue to buy into the idea that this billionaire is capable of reforming Washington. I get the feeling conservatives are already losing a bit of hope in that respect. Obamacare still exists. The Obama-era taxes and regulations are still in place. He has probably discouraged some illegal immigrants from entering the country, but they’re still coming here, just in fewer numbers. Other than Neil Gorsuch, he’s nowhere close to a signature accomplishment. And if he actually follows through on some of his ideas like gutting the healthcare markets and getting into a serious trade war with our trading partners, there’s a very real chance it could backfire and he could become politically radioactive. Trump could definitely fall, but there’s nothing right now that’s solid in terms of evidence to suggest that it’s an inevitability. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/148 "2017-08-15T21:23:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’ve read on Twitter that Richard Trumka’s spox has made noises that he’s likely out. Campbell’s Soup (Soup Nazis!) is probably not going to stay in for long according to people who know this stuff better than I do. No soup for you! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/149 "2017-08-15T21:36:00Z")
The new “both sides” commentary will probably drive a few more CEOs out, though I’m not smart enough to guess who. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/150 "2017-08-15T21:44:50Z")
There is no bottom. His campaign got worse every week and his presidency has gotten worse every week. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/151 "2017-08-15T21:46:59Z")
Richard Nixon and Herbert Hoover have to be happy, wherever they are. Trump’s making Herbert Hoover look like a preferable alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/152 "2017-08-15T21:50:13Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Richard Nixon and Herbert Hoover have to be happy, wherever they are. Trump’s making Herbert Hoover look like a preferable alternative. Shit, I miss GW. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/153 "2017-08-15T21:52:02Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Shit, I miss GW. Me too. Say what you will about GW Bush…Idiot, dope, moron, but I never doubted GW Bush loved this country, and I wouldn’t think for a moment that Bush was a Nazi or a white supremacist. Or any Republican previous to this guy for that matter. Even Nixon, though privately anti-Semitic, wasn’t a Nazi sympathizer, and was probably the best friend to Israel in the White House. I wish the GOP wasn’t insane now. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/154 "2017-08-15T22:52:04Z")
At least Duhbya would have the sense to not turn the knob in the wrong direction when trying to turn down the heat. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/155 "2017-08-15T23:05:47Z")
The point is not whether Trump will change - of course he won’t - but whether the response to his unchanging awfulness changes. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/156 "2017-08-15T23:07:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The point is not whether Trump will change - of course he won’t - but whether the response to his unchanging awfulness changes. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So… no. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/157 "2017-08-15T23:35:29Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Even Nixon, though privately anti-Semitic, wasn’t a Nazi sympathizer, and was probably the best friend to Israel in the White House. I wish the GOP wasn’t insane now. I don’t know about Nixon. He did specifically implement the War on Drugs (or what would become such) so as to dismantle black families and destroy them as a rising political force. You can argue this had more to do with his insane paranoia, but… it’s a gray area. I hated what Romney/Ryan stood for politically, but I respected them as people with differing opinions to mine. I thought Bush was an idiot but a lover of country. I thought McCain was a hack (“maverick”), but I also saw him as a hero I happened to dislike. Drumpf is clown Hitler, and that’s being nice. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/158 "2017-08-16T00:07:13Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > I don’t know about Nixon. He did specifically implement the War on Drugs (or what would become such) so as to dismantle black families and destroy them as a rising political force. You can argue this had more to do with his insane paranoia, but… it’s a gray area. And then Reagan really gave it the gas. > [@](#): > > I hated what Romney/Ryan stood for politically, but I respected them as people with differing opinions to mine. I thought Bush was an idiot but a lover of country. I thought McCain was a hack (“maverick”), but I also saw him as a hero I happened to dislike. > > Drumpf is clown Hitler, and that’s being nice. Romney was everything I hated about white privilege until Trump took over that clown car and blew Romney out of my mind with a howitzer. I wasn’t a big fan of Bush at the time, but that’s become more moderated since he left office. As for McCain, he’s probably the Republican who has most disappointed me. He sounded good, and the military thing appeals to me, but when it comes down to it he’s JAFR. Besides, I’d never have voted for him over Obama, especially with Queen Gravina as McCain’s running mate. (If you don’t get that reference: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina\_Island\_Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge)) ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/159 "2017-08-16T00:11:28Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Richard Nixon and Herbert Hoover have to be happy, wherever they are. Trump’s making Herbert Hoover look like a preferable alternative. I mentioned this previously, but after today’s performance I’m even more convinced about this. I think you would have to go all the way back to Calvin Coolidge or possibly even Woodrow Wilson to find a president that was more racist than Trump. I agree with you that even Hoover and Nixon were probably less racist than Trump. Edited to add. I hope we’re not into Buchanan, Jackson, and Andrew Johnson territory before it’s all said and done, but I fear we may be headed that way ☹ ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543/160 "2017-08-16T00:56:46Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Over/under on additional CEO’s leaving his councils by end of week… 4.5 😉 Has Ben Carson resigned from the Cabinet yet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-miscalculate/793543.md?page=9)