# Did Trump really want to win? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 19, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843 "2019-02-19T17:52:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/21 "2019-02-28T23:15:49Z")
Why do Trump’s opponents have such a hard time with the idea that Trump did, in fact, want to win the election? It is the most Occam’s-Razor answer presented. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/22 "2019-02-28T23:18:31Z")
The two aren’t necessarily in conflict – he may have run primarily as a branding exercise, but found he enjoyed it and decided he wanted to win. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/23 "2019-02-28T23:22:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The two aren’t necessarily in conflict – he may have run primarily as a branding exercise, but found he enjoyed it and decided he wanted to win. He may have started out with some vague idea of rage-quitting and making a big public spectacle when somebody gave him an excuse, but by the time the opportunity came around he was too caught up in the contest to give up. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/24 "2019-02-28T23:45:07Z")
In Trump’s mind, he wins even when he loses. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/25 "2019-02-28T23:46:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Why do Trump’s opponents have such a hard time with the idea that Trump did, in fact, want to win the election? It is the most Occam’s-Razor answer presented. It doesn’t ring true. As bizarre as Trump can be, up until that point in American history you would never unapologetically take all the pro wrestling bluster onto the debate stage 4 weeks before a presidential election you were trying to win. Anyone in their right mind would say this kind of talk is inadvisable: [https://youtu.be/slLCjLcgqbc?t=62](https://youtu.be/slLCjLcgqbc?t=62) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/26 "2019-03-01T00:16:22Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > It doesn’t ring true. As bizarre as Trump can be, up until that point in American history you would never unapologetically take all the pro wrestling bluster onto the debate stage 4 weeks before a presidential election you were trying to win. Anyone in their right mind would say this kind of talk is inadvisable: [https://youtu.be/slLCjLcgqbc?t=62](https://youtu.be/slLCjLcgqbc?t=62) That’s like saying, “Such-and-such a football coach didn’t want to win the Super Bowl. Proof? He was going for it on 4th-and-long in the first quarter. No coach in their right mind would do that.” Except that maybe, in Trump’s mind, that sort of “pro wrestling bluster” \*\*\*is \*\*\*how he thinks he wins. It’s how he plays to win. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/27 "2019-03-01T04:15:32Z")
Initially, no. But after a while he started believing his own bull sh…hype. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/28 "2019-03-01T04:50:27Z")
Like most people, I don’t understand Trump. I’m bad at predicting what he’ll do and usually taken by surprise by what he does. Unlike most people, I’ll admit it. I know that psychoanalyzing Trump has replaced baseball as our national pass-time, but I don’t have much to say about what he’s really thinking. But the theory that he didn’t want to win doesn’t seem convincing to me. Whatever else is true, he clearly likes taking on new challenges. In 2004, reality TV was a big thing. He took on the challenge of creating his own reality TV show and turned it into a success, while also helping to keep himself in the public eye as a celebrity. Throughout his career he has kept doing new things that seem unlikely at first. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/29 "2019-03-01T04:57:20Z")
We knew Hillary was a bad campaigner, but she and her team must have been considerably worse than we thought if she lost to an opponent who didn’t even want to win. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/30 "2019-03-01T06:20:31Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The entire time Trump was running I never believed he wanted to win the election. The more outlandish he gt the more people seemed to fall in line. I think it just went too far to back out at some point. Any thoughts on this? I think if he runs again it will be an entirely different approach. I really doubt he will run. Donald Trump, Jr., and now Michael Cohen, have confirmed that the victory in November 2016 was unintentional. I was posting here more than three years ago that Trump didn’t want the job: > [@Can Donald Trump Actually Win The White House?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-donald-trump-actually-win-the-white-house/735325/86): > > … I assume he lacks his own support as well – this is all a publicity stunt that’s gone farther than he ever expected… (Don’t click the link — I made some bad predictions in that post!) I’m sure I mentioned this several times, but it’s hard to search for. **However he needs the job now.** When he loses his Presidential immunity, he will become a top target for criminal prosecutions. He will cling to the office as hard as he can, hoping to die while still an unindicted President. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/31 "2019-03-01T12:44:14Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > We knew Hillary was a bad campaigner, but she and her team must have been considerably worse than we thought if she lost to an opponent who didn’t even want to win. Or the country is worse than we thought, that it elected a huckster who didn’t really want to win. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/32 "2019-03-01T12:52:57Z")
Can’t it be both? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/33 "2019-03-01T13:10:48Z")
Yes, provided we never lose sight of hurrh durrh Hillary lost emails pantsuits pwned lololol ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/34 "2019-03-01T13:34:19Z")
We can also add onto this discussion the understanding that Trump is one of the most inconsistent, erratic politicians in American history – based on his behavior as president, in which he’s contradicted himself within the same sentence, it’s entirely reasonable to suspect that he probably said that he didn’t care about winning at some point, and that he did at other times. With Trump, any and all positions are possible and maybe even likely. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/35 "2019-03-01T14:59:01Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > We knew Hillary was a bad campaigner, but she and her team must have been considerably worse than we thought if she lost to an opponent who didn’t even want to win. Not so much that she was a bad campaigner as the electorate was full of stupid voters. For a lot of people, their entire decision to vote went something like “duhhhhhhh, something something emails!” No, he didn’t want the job. If he had any fucking brains he wouldn’t have tried since taking it his odds of going to prison have skyrocketed. His goal was to finish second in the nominating process then set up his own news network to milk a giant cash cow. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/36 "2019-03-01T15:13:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > …No, he didn’t want the job. If he had any fucking brains he wouldn’t have tried since taking it his odds of going to prison have skyrocketed. His goal was to finish second in the nominating process then set up his own news network to milk a giant cash cow. Yep, this is what I said earlier. And now, the only was to stay out of prison is to remain President. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/37 "2019-03-01T17:42:40Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > We knew Hillary was a bad campaigner, but she and her team must have been considerably worse than we thought if she lost to an opponent who didn’t even want to win. I don’t see a smiley-face so I’ll assume your confusion is genuine and explain what you’re missing. Trump did not want to win, but he assumed that would be impossible. (Who could imagine American voters would be this stupid?) _But it was to his advantage that the margin of his loss be as small as possible._ Does this help? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/38 "2019-03-01T18:45:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Or the country is worse than we thought, that it elected a huckster who didn’t really want to win. Or, both might be true. Bad political environment + bad candidate = Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/39 "2019-03-01T19:00:26Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not so much that she was a bad campaigner as the electorate was full of stupid voters. For a lot of people, their entire decision to vote went something like “duhhhhhhh, something something emails!” > > No, he didn’t want the job. If he had any fucking brains he wouldn’t have tried since taking it his odds of going to prison have skyrocketed. His goal was to finish second in the nominating process then set up his own news network to milk a giant cash cow. For the longest time I was convinced that he didn’t want to win, but I’ve become increasingly convinced that he actually did care about winning - a lot more than I believed at first. I also believed that his chances were pretty good in this climate. He probably believed he had a 50/50 chance of winning or losing and was prepared to accept the latter, but still committed to winning - but here’s the kicker: I think that he ran and wanted to win primarily because of his astounding level of ignorance about the job. I think Trump truly believed that if he won, he could just let other people run the government while he ran his businesses, and that’s pretty much what he’s trying to do now. I think Trump is actually making (trying to make) the presidency into what he thought it would be like when he became president. He would do the things he wanted to do - go to rallies, insult members of the press, create a fan club of MAGA trolls, and use the government to enrich himself. I think he honestly calculated all of this when he ran, and I think he ran to win. That’s partly the reason he goes through cabinet members like toilet paper: he tires quickly of people telling them ‘the way it’s done’ when in reality he never intended to be the typical president. What he did not calculate is political reality, and that career civil servants who care about the office and national security would stand up to him and fight him even if it meant risking their own reputations and careers. What he did not calculate is that to these civil servants, the integrity of public office matters. American national security matters. Being fit for the job matters. He didn’t understand that there are thousands and thousands of employees who take their job in protecting the country against the abuses of power very seriously. And he obviously thought that those few who did care could be easily disposed of without consequence. He also failed to calculate that the same institutions that would investigate his abuses of power could also be used to investigate his business enterprise and his life before he became president. Donald Trump is an organized criminal, and he’s used to local authorities looking the other way and using the courts to settle disputes. He’s used to getting his way because people in federal office never took him that seriously. But now that they have, they are Trump’s mortal nemesis. Trump is like Don Corleone, fighting for his survival, the survival of his business, and that of his family as well. There’s no telling what he might do to ensure his survival, but it’ll almost certainly involve breaking more laws and more political norms. I just hope it doesn’t break American democracy. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843/40 "2019-03-01T19:46:08Z")
Few of the voters who voted for him understood either him or the job. A popularity contest among persons with no knowledge of the actual duties of the job, & only a superficial understanding of the candidates, hardly seems an informed or wise way of hiring someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-trump-really-want-to-win/829843.md?page=3)