# Did US judges in death penalty cases ever say May God have mercy on your soul? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 20, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599 "2017-03-20T10:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/1 "2017-03-20T10:31:45Z")
In England judges giving sentence of death, right up to the abolition of the death in the 60s, would always say after the sentence, And may God have mercy on your soul. I don’t recall American judges, at least in the movies and TV, ever using this phrase. Was it ever used in the US and if so when did it stop? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/2 "2017-03-20T11:00:44Z")
[The death sentence of Jose Maria Martin](https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wGyfHpF8zcoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=jose+maria+martin+death+sentence&source=bl&ots=c_i1VuRhCv&sig=DwJYZ2FiuPAJYpeD6SmCQc3v4BM&hl=en&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiD15Wj9OTSAhXKi5QKHTkiCY4Q6AEIIDAC#v=onepage&q=jose%20maria%20martin%20death%20sentence&f=false) in about 1860 sort of includes it, by omission. > [@](#): > > And the Court was about to add, Jose Maria Martin, may God have mercy on your soul, but this Court will not assume the responsibility of asking an allwise Providence to do that which a jury of your peers has refused to do. The Lord could not have mercy on your soul. The couple of pages are well worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/3 "2017-03-20T12:17:45Z")
Since you mentioned movies - the judge (or whatever position he had) [said it at Tuco’s hanging](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQd64gnMQBA#t=50s) in “The Good the Bad and the Ugly” ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/4 "2017-03-20T12:20:22Z")
I wondered if it was true that English judges used these words, so I looked it up. Everything you would ever want to know about who, what, why and how can be found [here](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging1.html) > [@](#): > > Up to 1948 the judge would say “(full name of prisoner) you will be taken hence to the prison in which you were last confined and from there to a place of execution where you will be hanged by the neck until you are dead and thereafter your body buried within the precincts of the prison and may the Lord have mercy upon your soul”. A slight modification was made in 1902, removing the words “the prison in which you were last confined” and substituting “lawful prison”. Around 1947 the judiciary decided that the sentence be modified by the substitution of the words “suffer death by hanging” for “be hanged by the neck until dead” and this sentence continued to be used for those convicted of capital murder up to 1956. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/5 "2017-03-20T12:46:09Z")
Well, only _some_ of British prisons had the distinction of having an execution chamber. Kinda the Three Gold Star establishments. We executed people nearly at the rate of the Americans — hangings were more popular a sport than shootings in the Old West — obviously, most European countries didn’t have high rates of executions in the 19th to 20th centuries until the Bolsheviks and Nazis took over. Then they went nuts for it. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/6 "2017-03-20T17:24:30Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I wondered if it was true that English judges used these words, so I looked it up. Everything you would ever want to know about who, what, why and how can be found [here](http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hanging1.html) Great link. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/7 "2017-03-20T17:39:41Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Well, only _some_ of British prisons had the distinction of having an execution chamber. Kinda the Three Gold Star establishments. > We executed people nearly at the rate of the Americans — hangings were more popular a sport than shootings in the Old West — obviously, most European countries didn’t have high rates of executions in the 19th to 20th centuries until the Bolsheviks and Nazis took over. Then they went nuts for it. From the same source: > [@](#): > > At the beginning of the 19th century, there were no fewer than 222 capital crimes, including such terrible offences as impersonating a Chelsea pensioner and damaging London Bridge! [_although_] there were only about seventeen general offences for which a death sentence was generally carried out in the 18th and early 19th centuries. These included murder, attempted murder, arson, rape, sodomy, forgery, uttering (passing forged or counterfeit monies or bills) coining, robbery, highway robbery (in many cases, this was the offence of street robbery, that we would now call mugging), housebreaking, robbery in a dwelling house, returning from transportation, cutting and maiming (grievous bodily harm) and horse, cattle or sheep stealing. For all the other capital offences, transportation to America or Australia was generally substituted for execution. Chelsea Pensioners were, and still are, retired soldiers who live in a home in Chelsea, an upmarket part of London (Also the site of the prestigious Chelsea Flower Show). They are distinguished by the distinctive red uniforms they wear. London Bridge is now in Arizona and I imagine the penalty for damaging it is somewhat more lenient… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/8 "2017-03-20T17:42:07Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > [The death sentence of Jose Maria Martin](https://books.google.com.au/books?id=wGyfHpF8zcoC&pg=PA87&lpg=PA87&dq=jose+maria+martin+death+sentence&source=bl&ots=c_i1VuRhCv&sig=DwJYZ2FiuPAJYpeD6SmCQc3v4BM&hl=en&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwiD15Wj9OTSAhXKi5QKHTkiCY4Q6AEIIDAC#v=onepage&q=jose%20maria%20martin%20death%20sentence&f=false) in about 1860 sort of includes it, by omission. > > The couple of pages are well worth reading. Judges always seem to be assholes to me. “When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.” - Winston Churchill ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/9 "2017-03-20T17:54:51Z")
I always thought it was a movie trope about some “hanging judge” that he said “May God have mercy upon your soul, for I shall have none…” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/10 "2017-03-20T18:29:29Z")
> [@Judge Roy Bean](#): > > Jose Manuel Miguel Gonzales, in a few short weeks it will be spring. > The snows of winter will flow away, the ice will vanish, the air will become soft and balmy. > The annual miracle of the years will awaken and come to pass. > The rivulet will run its soaring course to the sea. > The timid desert flowers will put fourth their tender shoots. > The glorious valleys of this imperial domain will blossom as the rose. > From every tree top, some wild songster will carol his mating song. > Butterflies will sport in the sunshine. > > But you will not be their to enjoy it. Because I command the sheriff of the county to lead you away to some remote spot, swing you by the neck from a knotting bough of some sturdy oak and let you hang until dead. > > And then Jose Manuel Miguel Gonzales, I further command that such officers retire quickly from your dangling corpse, that vultures may descend from the heavens upon your filthy body until nothing is left but the bare, bleached bones of a cold-blooded, blood-thirsty, throat-cutting, mudering S.O.B [Cite](http://www.knology.net/~lonesomedove/justice.html). Judge Bean is also said to have concluded, not trials, but marriages, with the phrase “and may God have mercy on your soul”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/11 "2017-03-20T18:40:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Judge Bean is also said to have concluded, not trials, but marriages, with the phrase “and may God have mercy on your soul”. Perhaps they aren’t _all_ assholes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/12 "2017-03-20T18:48:02Z")
Here’s a citation dating from before 1849 (the year the book was published – and he was writing about hearing this as a child) > **[Human Life](https://books.google.com/books?id=P9spAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA52&dq=%22may%2BGod%2Bhave%2Bmercy%2Bon%2Byour%2Bsoul%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifluTN3uXSAhVFfiYKHSn7DdsQ6AEIOTAG#v=onepage&q=%22may%20God%20have%20mercy%20on%20your%20soul%22&f=false)** **Human Life – Illustrated by my Individual Experience as a Child, a Youth, and a Man** by Henry Clarke Wright p. 52 here’s another, from a book published in 1882, about Guiteau p. 401 A Complete History of the Trial of Guiteau, Assassin of President Garfield By Charles Joseph Hayes, Henry Gillespie Hayes > **[A Complete History of the Trial of Guiteau, Assassin of President Garfield](https://books.google.com/books?id=MCw3AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA401&dq=%22may%2BGod%2Bhave%2Bmercy%2Bon%2Byour%2Bsoul%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwifluTN3uXSAhVFfiYKHSn7DdsQ6AEIPzAH#v=onepage&q=%22may%20God%20have%20mercy%20on%20your%20soul%22&f=false)** The judge is supposed to have used the words “and may God have mercy on your soul” in both books. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/13 "2017-03-20T19:20:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Cite](http://www.knology.net/~lonesomedove/justice.html). > > Judge Bean is also said to have concluded, not trials, but marriages, with the phrase “and may God have mercy on your soul”. Hmmmm…This quote is suspiciously similar to that mentioned for Jose Maria Martin in the link given by **don’t ask**. And it seems from his link thta the fate of this Martin is unknown. And his crime isn’t mentioned, which I find surprising. Could it be that these quotes are just stories, attributed to different people in different places, essentially urban legends? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/14 "2017-03-20T20:37:20Z")
What? Are you saying some random quote plucked from the Internet could be _wrong_? :eek: FWIW I read another version of the flowery condemnation to hanging in a surprisingly scholarly work called _The History of Torture_. In that book, which I no longer own, the condemned is supposed to have responded > [@](#): > > You can hang me by my neck until I’m dead, dead, dead. And you can kiss my ass until it’s red, red, red, and G\*d damn your foul old soul. Which has a certain poetry of its own. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/15 "2017-03-21T03:31:12Z")
The justice of the peace that married my grandparents (jokingly) said that to my grandfather right after pronouncing them man & wife. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/16 "2017-03-21T04:40:16Z")
The judge in the 1883 trail of [Alferd Packer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alferd_Packer), the notorious Colorado Cannibal, was reported by a local newspaper to have condemned him with the words: > [@](#): > > Stand up yah voracious man-eatin’ sonofabitch and receive yir sintince. When yah came to Hinsdale County, there was siven Dimmycrats. But you, yah et five of ‘em, goddam yah. I sintince yah t’ be hanged by th’ neck ontil yer dead, dead, dead, as a warnin’ ag’in reducin’ th’ Dimmycratic populayshun of this county. Packer, you Republican cannibal, I would sintince ya ta hell but the statutes forbid it However, according to court records the judge actually said: > [@](#): > > Alfred Packer, the judgement of this court is that you be removed from hence to the jail of Hinsdale County and there confined until the 19th day of May, A.D. 1883, and that on said 19th day of May, 1883, you be taken from thence by the sheriff of Hinsdale County to a place of execution prepared for this purpose, at some point within the corporate limits of the town of Lake City, in the said county of Hinsdale, and between the hours of 10 A.M. and 3 P.M. of said day, you, then and there, by said sheriff, be hung by the neck until you are dead, dead, dead, **and may God have mercy upon your soul.** ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/17 "2017-03-21T04:42:52Z")
I don’t have a link but some years back I did see footage of a judge (IIRC in Florida) sentence a man to death and did in fact say MGHMOYS. And after that he said “good luck to you.” Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/18 "2017-03-21T04:50:27Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] The judge in the 1883 trail of Alferd Packer, the notorious Colorado Cannibal, was reported by a local newspaper to have condemned him with the words: [/quote] After he was hanged the body of the condemned was disposed of by his relatives as he requested. Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/19 "2017-03-21T15:22:47Z")
Can’t remember the name of the killer, but he killed Polly Klass & I watched his sentencing on TV and after he was sentenced to death, the judge said “May God have mercy on your soul.” So clearly, at least some judges say it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599/20 "2017-03-21T15:27:57Z")
It’s been twenty years and he’s still not dead - I wish God would have mercy on him sooner. Regards, Shodan [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-us-judges-in-death-penalty-cases-ever-say-may-god-have-mercy-on-your-soul/782599.md?page=2)