# Did Vikings or Norse explore North America beyond Newfoundland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 12, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076 "2013-02-12T12:48:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/121 "2013-02-25T16:44:49Z")
[Archaeology professor debunks claims for ancient rock structures as pseudoscientific fallacy](http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2002/02-01/archaeology.htm). It’s even worse than you think. The major claim for Mystery Hill was pushed forth by Barry Fell in _America B.C._ Fell was a professor. A professor of invertebrate zoology. If you want examples of professors who became cranks when they branched out into alien fields, he’d be a good exhibit A. I own _America B.C._, BTW. It’s a perfect book of its kind, down to the front-cover blurb from Peter Tompkins, author of _Secrets of the Great Pyramid_. If you believe one, then why not believe them all: they use the same lack of science and rationality and common sense. I haven’t read the book in many decades, but flipping through it confirms that he’s batting .000 in his claims. His standard technique was to determine an end, say, ogam glyphs on rocks found at Mystery Hill, and then work backward until he found something, anything in original inscriptions that might possibly match - while ignoring whether the marks were made by people or plows. (As convincing debunked in [A Linguistic Analysis of Some West Virginia Petroglyphs, By Monroe Oppenheimer and Willard Wirtz - The West Virginia Archeologist Volume 41, Number 1, Spring 1989](http://cwva.org/ogam_rebutal/wirtz.html).) There are some names that instantly mark a subject as pseudoscience. A nutrition thread that includes references to Weston Price or Joseph Mercola needs to be treated as if covered with ebola. If one of your sources for “fact” is Barry Fell you’ve removed yourself from rational consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@Bob\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_X)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/122 "2013-02-25T17:25:25Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > I know almost nothing about the Viking sagas, but I do know that when it comes to any culture’s set of passed-down stories, some are inevitably going to be more reliable than others. The Viking sagas aren’t one monolithic entity, where the reliability of one is evidence of the reliability of all the others. > > Even if they all started out as pure fact, they’ve gone through a variety of avenues to reach us, and some of those avenues are going to be more reliable than others. If Saga A has reached us through a long line of people who were very serious about maintaining their history, while Saga B went through one guy who was all about the aesthetic of the story arc or who had a crap memory and made up bits to fill in what he forgot, then Saga B is going to have less truth in it than Saga A. It can work the other way around, too - if they all started out as pure fiction, maybe the writer or one of the tellers of Saga A decided to incorporate elements of reality, while no one did the same with Saga B. Same result: widely differing degrees of accuracy. > > And the only way to figure out where any given saga falls on the spectrum is by checking it against outside evidence. You can’t make guesses about its degree of truth in a vacuum. > > Again, this isn’t anything like an area of expertise for me, so if I’m talking bollix, someone please enlighten me. No, what you’re saying is quite correct. And the Vinland case is a perfect example of a Saga A and a Saga B. The _Groenlendiga Saga_ is basic and straightforward, about how Eric the Red settled in Iceland, explored beyond and found Greenland, convinced some to move there (using that very misleading name for the place!), and how the existence of some further lands were noted. _Eiriks Saga_ contains fuller information: but some of it, like the discovery of a “uniped” in Vinland (like a human, with only one leg but skilled at hopping very fast) so clearly bogus or distorted that we have take the remainder of the added material with some crunchy grains of salt. ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/123 "2013-03-23T13:57:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That website offers no evidence. It makes unsubstantiated claims about the date of origin of the tower. A north facing window is not a remarkable astronomical alignment, and it seems obvious to me that the footings were placed there in colonial times. > > Why on earth would Vikings travel to Newport, build a large tower, and not leave any other enduring artifacts? Well, in that case, read the evidence as presented by an astronomer. The unusual astronomical alignments are undeniable. Does not prove it’s pre-colonial, but the alignments are there and I fail to understand why they were needed in a windmill. [http://www.neara.org/images/what/Newport\_astronomy\_Penhallow.pdf](http://www.neara.org/images/what/Newport_astronomy_Penhallow.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/124 "2013-03-23T14:01:54Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The [Narragansett Rune Stone](http://www.slideshare.net/rmdejonge/narragan-1)rarely gets any mention, and [now it’s missing!](http://www.independentri.com/front/article_d22659e4-f2a7-11e1-b5f1-001a4bcf887a.html) Those vikings are so sneaky and ironic. I was the first to document and photograph for publication this particular stone. The criminal investigation is still ongoing and we are hopeful the stone will eventually be returned to the safe location planned for it before it was stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/125 "2013-03-23T14:06:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope, my friends still call themselves Norse. > Nope. There is no evidence at all it’s a fake. Mind you, it’s out in the middle of no-where, which makes it doubtful. OMG, I don’t know if it’s authentic or not but there has been abundant evidence developed to suggest it is a fake! You are aware that the runes indicate 2 different time period languages were employed? How in the world does one explain away that damning evidence for it being a fraud? ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/126 "2013-03-23T14:16:17Z")
> [@Shawomet](#): > > I was the first to document and photograph for publication this particular stone. The criminal investigation is still ongoing and we are hopeful the stone will eventually be returned to the safe location planned for it before it was stolen. BTW, as a responsible researcher, I never revealed the exact location of the Narragansett Stone. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for later researchers who clearly did not have the stones’ safety in mind by publishing its’ exact location. ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/127 "2013-03-23T14:39:01Z")
> [@Shawomet](#): > > OMG, I don’t know if it’s authentic or not but there has been abundant evidence developed to suggest it is a fake! You are aware that the runes indicate 2 different time period languages were employed? How in the world does one explain away that damning evidence for it being a fraud? Scratch that. I don’t know the linguistic pros and cons to really comment on that one aspect. I actually lean toward authenticity of the KRS, I just don’t believe the arguments against its authenticity are completely without merit. Especially where the so called Hooked X is concerned. At he same time, I don’t believe the NA stones showing a Hooked X have been proven modern or medieval to a conclusive degree one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/128 "2013-06-14T18:11:53Z")
For fans of the Newport Tower: > **[Designer 14k Gold & Mens Sterling Silver Pendants - J.H. Breakell and Co.](https://breakell.com/pendants/)** > > Shop J.H. Breakell American Silversmiths. deals in selling stylish pearl, silver circle heart, 14k gold, and mens sterling silver pendants at an amazing cost in various designs. Browse their official website and buy amazing jewelry for your dear one. [http://www.breakell.com/product/1845/14K\_Gold\_Sterling\_Silver\_Pendants\_and\_Necklaces\_JH\_Breakell](http://www.breakell.com/product/1845/14K_Gold_Sterling_Silver_Pendants_and_Necklaces_JH_Breakell) ---
**Author:** ![Shawomet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@Shawomet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawomet)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076/129 "2016-01-13T23:13:43Z")
The Narragansett Stone was recovered. It had been stolen and dumped in deeper waters of Narragansett Bay. It is now on permanent display in the village of Wickford, RI, just a few miles south of it’s find location. My own opinion is that it is of modern origin. Henrik Williams did publish a study and it was his opinion that it was carved between 1890-1940. I am including the following link for the photos provided… [Narragansett Runestone Dedicated - ArrowHeads.com](http://forums.arrowheads.com/forum/general-discussion-gc5/archaeology-news-reports-discussion-gc43/180290-narragansett-runestone-dedicated) News coverage of the dedication in October, 2015: > **[Mysterious multi-ton stone has new home](https://turnto10.com/news/local/mysterious-multi-ton-stone-has-new-home)** > > A multi-ton stone, with its unusual engravings, now sits at its new permanent home on the Wickford waterfront.A placard chronicles the known and speculative history, and discounts the erroneous. Some say the evidence now points back 800 years.Steve... And here, a shortened version of Henrik Williams’ study of the inscription: [http://files.webb.uu.se/uploader/267/Narragansett%20Stone%20Report%203.1%20Williams%202014.pdf](http://files.webb.uu.se/uploader/267/Narragansett%20Stone%20Report%203.1%20Williams%202014.pdf) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-vikings-or-norse-explore-north-america-beyond-newfoundland/650076.md?page=6)