# Did we all see the same movie? Avengers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 30, 2012, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100 "2012-08-30T02:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/41 "2012-08-30T19:40:56Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If your opinion was a superhero, it would be Captain Wrong. šŸ™‚ Actually, it would be Lt. Col. Wrong! How dare you rebut my lousy argument with my own words. Thatā€™s cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/42 "2012-08-30T20:18:41Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > At this point, I definitely donā€™t think we were watching the same movie. Without The Avengers, Loki would have killed twenty million people and delivered his evil villain speech and forced Black Widow and/or Tony Stark to service him sexually before dinner. And then what? He would have a beach head in New York City and every military asset in the U.S. and the world on the way to put a smack down on him. Loki may have believed that the whole world have surrendered at this point, but why should they? Because this alien army was so mighty it overcame the NYPD in a single day? Their war plan was equivalent to coming to prison and surprise nut checking the biggest con in the yard. Maybe they did have enough firepower coming through the portal to take over the world, but the way they used it was the best way to gueruntee the biggest response we could muster. Loki was only concerned with NYC and the Avengers, he no plan for conventional military. > [@Scupper](#): > > One rogue element from Asgard caused some damage in a small town. There was no indication that any other threats existed (though itā€™s reasonable for SHIELD to suppose that Asgard + The Hulk + The Cosmic Cube weirdness = Better to be prepared for whatever comes next). Compared to what they already knew about HYDRAā€™s use of the cube, some property damage in New Mexico seems pretty weak justification for co-opting unstable Nazi superweapons. There was never even any conventional military hardware brought to bear against the Destroyer ā€“ Thor basically handled the problem without any help and with fairly minimal damage. As far as SHIELD knows, a single howitzer shell might have taken out the Asgardian menace, and yet they went completely overboard, _obviously_ with The Hulk in mind, since no further threat from Asgard seemed imminent. First when Loki sent the Destroyer, he was not a rogue element, he was in charge of Asgard. Second, all anyone on Earth would know about Asgard at the end of Thor was that they were an extremely powerful military culture who had just had a successful coup followed by an equally successful counter coup. And that some factions there did not care about the Earth at all. Why should we trust them to protect us? > [@Scupper](#): > > Iā€™m not saying that SHIELD was wrong in doing what they did, just that the other characters had realistic objections, tinted by their own self-interests and egos. It does bear mentioning that their objections and worries are almost totally justified: the cubeā€™s power backfired on them just like it did on the Red Skull, which might have been prevented had they involved Tony Stark, and they _did_ let it slip into the hands of Loki. It has been a while since I saw Captain America, but other than the Naziā€™s being evil, why would they suspect the cube was more dangerous than just its power would suggest? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/43 "2012-08-30T20:21:35Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > The implication is really that the people that these weapons are designed to combat are, if not the Avengers themselves, then people like them, particularly Thor and the Hulk. Iā€™m pretty sure this isnā€™t implied, itā€™s explicitly stated - if not itā€™s such a strong implication it may as well have been. And letā€™s point out another problem with SHIELD having Tesseract-based weaponry (and Hydraā€™s arsenal, and other superkit). They are a secret organization, which seems to be tied to a single government (but may be tied to none, I donā€™t think it was ever entirely clear)ā€¦developing weapons that can take down every army on Earth. Yeah, canā€™t go wrong, there. Those lovely folks at Hydra are such a great example to follow. Of course, they now have the Avengers on their payroll which is hardly better from an outside POV, but the team knows they can be trusted (on this count, at least) and will certainly go rogue if SHIELD decides to go all cackly supervillain. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/44 "2012-08-30T21:05:33Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Yeah, ridiculously HOT! > > Viva la Objectification! I didnā€™t find her very attractive, but I appreciated the gratuitous ass shots of the other three characters I mentioned. I just wish there had been more of Thor as well. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/45 "2012-08-30T21:30:20Z")
No ass shot is ever gratuitous! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/46 "2012-08-30T21:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Rubixcube** : > > She really served little purpose in the film, in fact Iā€™m of the opinion that she was only really there for the purposes of having a hot actress run around in a skin tight suit. Personally, Iā€™m of the opinion that that would have been sufficient justification in itself. But as it happens, I _also_ think she did a great job with the acting, in what screen time she had. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/47 "2012-08-30T21:36:16Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > It has been a while since I saw Captain America, but other than the Naziā€™s being evil, why would they suspect the cube was more dangerous than just its power would suggest? SHIELD might not suspect it, but Captain America saw the cube melt Red Skullā€™s face and open a rift into some other world. All of this was wildly chaotic and out of control. While HYDRAā€™s weapons were impressive, they werenā€™t particularly _effective_, in that the Howling Commandos managed to foil them time and time again. Those two facts together would make anyone pretty skeptical of the risk to reward ratio of messing with the cube. ---
**Author:** ![Scupper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/48 "2012-08-30T21:50:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, Iā€™m of the opinion that that would have been sufficient justification in itself. But as it happens, I _also_ think she did a great job with the acting, in what screen time she had. I agree. I also think that she and Hawkeye provide a slightly more relatable, street-level view of the situation. They arenā€™t streaking through the sky (mostly) or blowing the doors off of squads of enemies at once, but they are still effective. [QUOTE=Rubixcube] She really served little purpose in the film, in fact Iā€™m of the opinion that she was only really there for the purposes of having a hot actress run around in a skin tight suit. [/quote] She stopped Hawkeyeā€™s rampaging sabotage of the Helicarrier, kicked his ass, and brought him back around to the side of SHIELD. Oh, and she _did_ discover how to shut the portal down and stop the invasion, and then do so. Other than that, no purpose whatsoever. :rolleyes: Thor smashed things and ineffectually tried to convince Loki of the error of his ways, but heā€™s not a hot chick. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/49 "2012-08-30T22:01:36Z")
> [@grude](#): > > The USA(aside from Thor they all are americans). Black Widow is Russian (hint - real name: Natasha Romanov) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/50 "2012-08-30T22:23:06Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > And then what? He would have a beach head in New York City and every military asset in the U.S. and the world on the way to put a smack down on him. Loki may have believed that the whole world have surrendered at this point, but why should they? Because this alien army was so mighty it overcame the NYPD in a single day? Their war plan was equivalent to coming to prison and surprise nut checking the biggest con in the yard. Maybe they did have enough firepower coming through the portal to take over the world, but the way they used it was the best way to gueruntee the biggest response we could muster. Loki was only concerned with NYC and the Avengers, he no plan for conventional military. And then he would have had aliens continually pouring out of the portal to provide backup. Without Iron Man rerouting the nuke into the control ship, no power on this Earth could have stopped him. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Black Widow is Russian (hint - real name: Natasha Romanov) _Was_ Russian. At least, thatā€™s what she tells Loki. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/51 "2012-08-30T23:18:10Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Black Widow is Russian (hint - real name: Natasha Romanov) Mission: kill moose and squirrel. ---
**Author:** ![Rubixcube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rubixcube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubixcube)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/52 "2012-08-31T00:05:37Z")
> [@Scupper](#): > > She stopped Hawkeyeā€™s rampaging sabotage of the Helicarrier, kicked his ass, and brought him back around to the side of SHIELD. > > Oh, and she _did_ discover how to shut the portal down and stop the invasion, and then do so. > > Other than that, no purpose whatsoever. :rolleyes: > > Thor smashed things and ineffectually tried to convince Loki of the error of his ways, but heā€™s not a hot chick. _shrugs_ To me those all felt like things they could have had anyone do. I just didnā€™t think her character really added anything to the film, she had little personality and unlike the other Avengers (excluding Hawkeye who was really just there to serve as the saboteur) she didnā€™t really have a place or purpose on the team. Still credit where credit is due her encounters with the Hulk were some of the highlights of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/53 "2012-08-31T03:36:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And then he would have had aliens continually pouring out of the portal to provide backup. Without Iron Man rerouting the nuke into the control ship, no power on this Earth could have stopped him. A nuke landing in NYC would have stopped them pretty good too. There may have been a lot of them, but they were not endless. They were all also not very effective. An air burst might have worked even better. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/54 "2012-08-31T04:34:45Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > A nuke landing in NYC would have stopped them pretty good too. There may have been a lot of them, but they were not endless. They were all also not very effective. An air burst might have worked even better. A nuke landing in NYC wouldnā€™t have stopped the portal (which could only be penetrated by Lokiā€™s staff) and there were a lot of aliens waiting to come through. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/55 "2012-08-31T04:37:48Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > the portal (which could only be penetrated by Lokiā€™s staff) Quoting out of context because I can. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/56 "2012-08-31T06:49:35Z")
> [@Rubixcube](#): > > _shrugs_ To me those all felt like things they could have had anyone do. She doesnā€™t really do it either. Doesnā€™t the old scientist guy tell her that the staff closes the portal? And actually, isnā€™t the staff just lying on the ground at that point? Seems like the old scientist guy couldā€™ve just done it himself, off camera, and saved the day why the rest of the heroes were being worthless running around Manhatten individually picking off aliens with medieval technology (arrows and bludgeoning them with a shield). ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/57 "2012-08-31T13:41:45Z")
slight hijack - Theyā€™ve re-released the Avengers in theaters for Labor Day weekend. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/58 "2012-08-31T13:51:40Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > slight hijack - Theyā€™ve re-released the Avengers in theaters for Labor Day weekend. Alright! On a national holiday celebrating the worker, America can see how rugged individualism fails yet again, but co-operative action and acceptance of personal differences saves the day. šŸ˜› ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/59 "2012-08-31T14:26:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Alright! On a national holiday celebrating the worker, America can see how rugged individualism fails yet again, but co-operative action and acceptance of personal differences saves the day. šŸ˜› Iā€™ll be sure to tell my kids thatā€™s the underlying message if I wind up taking them to see it. Or maybe Iā€™ll just leave it at ā€œHulk smash!!!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100/60 "2012-08-31T14:57:25Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Alright! On a national holiday celebrating the worker, America can see how rugged individualism fails yet again, but co-operative action and acceptance of personal differences saves the day. šŸ˜› Fantastic. I just stole this for my own uses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-we-all-see-the-same-movie-avengers/633100.md?page=4)