# Did Welfare Reform Really Work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273 "2000-11-29T23:30:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2000, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/1 "2000-11-29T23:30:37Z")
Well…did it? Haven’t seen many (if any)follow up studies referenced in the popular media with respect to the longer term effects of the early-mid 90’s welfare reform/workfare movement as implemented by the states. I would imagine we’re far enough down the road now there should be some kind of social or academic consensus as to it’s efficacy and real world sociological impact. Is there any academic or social consensus that conservatives were correct or incorrect about the net negative effects of welfare (as implemented from the 1960’s to early 1990’s) or is the jury still out. Did it work as projected? Did people wind up better off overall after being forced to get jobs? What’s the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/2 "2000-11-30T02:29:43Z")
It “worked” & it will continue to “work”… as long as the economy continues to be good. After that, it’s anybody’s guess. If it turns out that it doesn’t work, there will be a crime wave unprecedented in American history; people will do whatever they have to , to feed their kids. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/3 "2000-11-30T04:44:01Z")
For what it’s worth, my sister in law was a welfare lifer (21 years on welfare- that’s a long, long time). When the whole welfare to workfare thing started in NY, she got her ass a job and has been working for a year now. She knows she has to, as the government will no longer pay her way. I’ve seen the positive things it’s done for her and her family, so in my little world it worked great. Zette ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/4 "2000-11-30T07:16:13Z")
**astro** , you should know better than to post this here. Any question like this will depend on who’s answering, with people in favor of the reform saying it worked and people opposed saying it didn’t. This is what we call a debate. ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/5 "2000-11-30T16:05:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*It “worked” & it will continue to “work”… as long as the economy continues to be good. > After that, it’s anybody’s guess. > > If it turns out that it doesn’t work, there will be a crime wave unprecedented in American history; people will do whatever they have to , to feed their kids. \*\* Welfare reform did NOT include food stamps. Food stamp allotments have been increased. Except in very limited circumstanced the ‘theft for food’ argument is not valid. Anyway, I would expect a down turn in the economy would result in the feds giving extensions to people who have used up their lifetime benefits. Does anyone have any numbers on the number of people who have used up their 5 years allotment and no longer qualify??? ---
**Author:** ![TheFifthYear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@TheFifthYear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFifthYear)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/6 "2000-11-30T17:09:04Z")
Well, from conversations I’ve had with my professors, their consensus is that no one has any idea whether it is working or not, because the laws are set up in such a way that they are very difficult to study. I do not know the details of why exactly that is, but I do know that their is some feeling in the academic community that there was some mischeif in creating a system that simply cannot be evaluated in any sort of scientific manner. Anecdotal evidence is about all that is out there, afaik. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-welfare-reform-really-work/43273/7 "2000-11-30T17:23:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by labdude \* > \*\*Welfare reform did NOT include food stamps. Food stamp allotments have been increased. Except in very limited circumstanced the ‘theft for food’ argument is not valid. > \*\* Please keep in mind that the term “welfare reform” refers to a multitude of state and federal programs, so your assumption that food stamps were not included isn’t necessarily accurate. In some states (MI is one), food stamps are available primarily to families with dependant children. Adults are only able to recieve temporary assistance with food stamps (a couple of months, IIRC). back to the OP - “did it work” - depends on what you define as it’s goals, and in which locality. I can speak rather competently on the stats for MI (specifically mid MI, since I’m at meetings every month about this), so, if the goal is “reduce the number of open cases on AFDC”, then the answer is yes, without question. If, however, the goal was “reduce the amount of money spent” the answer is much murkier. While there may be fewer people getting cash benefits, more are getting child care assistance, transportation assistance etc. At least locally, when they determine the “cost” per placement for the client, they don’t include specific assistance payments (for interview clothing, training, certification, transportation etc.) which can run into relatively big bucks per client. In addition, you’d have to include the costs of the welfare to work programs (currently running a couple of million per year in my area alone). If the goal is to reduce the reliance of specific individuals on welfare, well, you’d first have to identify what you meant. Back when I was running one of the programs, the truth was that most of the people who were on assistance were on for less than two years. the others had huge other issues (children requiring round the clock medical care, language issues, physical and serious emotional issues etc.). So, again, who knows?