# Did you believe the USA would become the USSR? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 1, 2008, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470 "2008-08-01T06:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/21 "2008-08-01T20:35:15Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] I’ve never seen as much hatred for America as I have in this thread. [/QUOTE] Uh-huh. Come back and tell me about it after you’ve been asked to take your clothes off in front of a complete stranger. What a foolish statement. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/22 "2008-08-01T20:46:55Z")
Apparently my whooshing chip is malfunctioning. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/23 "2008-08-01T20:50:02Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Apparently my whooshing chip is malfunctioning. [/QUOTE] Heh, sounds more like our’s were. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/24 "2008-08-01T23:51:45Z")
My reactions to these stories tend to be muted. Although I consider myself a strong privacy advocate, and am always ready to argue vehemently against such things as workplace rules that dictate off-the-clock behavior, I tend to say meh about things like surveillance cameras in public places, red light cameras, and that sort of thing. When I’m out in public I agree to certain conditions, like that I will obey the law. Surveillance of this kind can help to protect the law abiding, and I don’t have a problem with it, as long as the recorded data from the cameras is not provided to someone else so they can invade your privacy. But this story of the OPs is really disturbing. Yeah, we’re still better than China and North Korea, but I thought we weren’t supposed to be in the same league with them! ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/25 "2008-08-02T06:22:24Z")
Yup… red light cameras, general security cameras, fine. Taking my laptop/camera/phone away for a few weeks without any probable cause for God knows what, not fine. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/26 "2008-08-02T08:32:48Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] I’m not white. More precisely, I’m bi-racial (black and white) and American. People have told me I could pass for Egyptian. Guess what I go through? [/QUOTE] You might get a laugh (or others will laugh and you’ll just sigh, possibly) out of [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McB9tsabPn0). ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/27 "2008-08-02T13:19:48Z")
[QUOTE=Benjamin Franklin] They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. [/QUOTE] I call bullshit on any sheep who doesn’t see this as a LONG slide down the slippery slope, and instead say “oh, it’s ok… they’re doing it to protect us from _terrorists_.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/28 "2008-08-02T14:18:22Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/29 "2008-08-02T14:36:54Z")
Insane quote from article: > [@](#): > > Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff wrote in an opinion piece published last month in USA Today that “the most dangerous contraband is often contained in laptop computers or other electronic devices.” Searches have uncovered “violent jihadist materials” as well as images of child pornography, he wrote. Have these guys ever heard of the internet? If I wanted to get any dangerous contraband data into the US, I’d be ftp’ing an encrypted data file from some anonymous server. Not carrying it around on a laptop. This kind of surveillance doesn’t do crap except give the Feds a chance to paw through everybody’s closet without a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/30 "2008-08-02T15:28:48Z")
Look, the DHS is a mess. Two parties in the Congress and White House cooperated to make the hugest mess in history, and it desn’t do anything useful. Sorry. I’d stop it if I could. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/31 "2008-08-02T15:42:36Z")
. . . Well, that pretty much seals that. Next time our company’s going to the states, our files will be forwarded to an online backup before we go and wiped locally. There’s no way we’re going to expose our information to that level of beliggerent, haphazard, opaque and questionably motivated scrutiny - by morons, no less. _sigh_ Maybe it’s time to start having meetings in Oslo again. (Hey, we do have an Hotel Cecil :)) ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/32 "2008-08-02T15:49:44Z")
Screenwriter here. I write for crime procedurals, where most of my writing is highly specialized (I do a lot of consulting) and involves the details of how to kill people and blow shit up for a living. My laptop contains a shitload of information on how to blow stuff up, on the arms trade, on terrorist activity, on Afghanistan, Iraq, the US Army, Marine Corps and the Navy. Oh, and for some reason, the Albanian mob. But that’s a long, funny story for another time. It also contains piles of scripts that aren’t allowed to leak anywhere. I live in the US. I’m not a US Citizen. I’m not sure I want to travel with my laptop o’er the border when I go to Canada anymore… (Thinking about Harold and Kumar… I really don’t WANT to eat cock sandwich…) ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/33 "2008-08-02T15:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Finagle] Insane quote from article: [/QUOTE] I like this one: > [@](#): > > Customs Deputy Commissioner Jayson P. Ahern said the efforts “do not infringe on Americans’ privacy.” Really? _Really?_ If taking every single scrap of digital and analog (i.e. anything printed on paper, recorded on VHS, photos, microfiche, whatever) information a person is carrying, and doing so without any cause at all, doesn’t infringe on people’s privacy, _then what does?_ ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/34 "2008-08-02T16:12:03Z")
Stories like these and the domestic spying is how I know we already lost the “War on Terror” and can only hope to return from this defeat. We have sold our soul when it comes to rights and freedom. He have put on the black hat when it comes to issues of torture. We are going through a very dark period and we need to come out of it. On the other hand, the US has had other dark periods and did recover from them, so I hold out hope as I always do that our freedoms will be regained. It seems like we run in cycles in this country and this is a dark one. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/35 "2008-08-02T16:50:31Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] Yet another reason why I feel correct in avoiding the US. [/QUOTE] Plus, the USA demanded that airlines provide all sort of personal data about passengers, and of course the EU and the European governments caved in and allowed the airlines to disclose said informations. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/36 "2008-08-02T16:55:25Z")
[QUOTE=Turek] I call bullshit on any sheep who doesn’t see this as a LONG slide down the slippery slope [/QUOTE] This explains **Hal Briston’s** interest in this thread. 😉 Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/37 "2008-08-02T17:08:37Z")
Another shameful step in the abrogation of individual rights on the altar of the perception of safety. Time to rattle my US reps again about how wrong I think all this shit is. Not that Hillary, nor Chuck, ever listen. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/38 "2008-08-02T20:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] Another shameful step in the abrogation of individual rights on the altar of the perception of safety. Time to rattle my US reps again about how wrong I think all this shit is. Not that Hillary, nor Chuck, ever listen. [/QUOTE] Ah. Chuck “Michael Mukasey will make a FINE Attorney General” Shumer. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/39 "2008-08-02T21:08:24Z")
It was affirmed in the 9th circuit under [US v Arnold](http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/ABF5C42AFF3A5CB688257481007EC203/$file/0650581.pdf?openelement) [PDF]. I think the argument is that at border crossings (counting airports as a border) particularized suspicion isn’t required for search and seizure, regardless of citizenship. Ah, terrorism and pedophilia, contemporary America’s two favorite manias to curtail civil liberties. I mean, if you’re against customs keeping your laptop, then you \*must \*be for pedophiles and terrorism, right? Why do you hate children and America? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470/40 "2008-08-02T21:30:01Z")
Well, George Orwell sorta did, kinda. The totalitarian state of Oceania in the novel _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ was the product of American expansion. The Soviet equivalent resulted in the rival state of Eurasia. As a even more minor additional note, Part I, Chapter 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms covers “Mobility Rights”, with paragraph (1) being “Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.” It’s not directly relevant (our customs agents can be mini-Hitler jerks, too, and border law can get Kafka-esque without warning), but I find the paragraph a bit comforting. Even minorer, I’d strongly consider making internet backups for the simple reason than when travelling, there’s always a chance your laptop could get stolen as well as grabbed by ham-fisted and slug-brained customs agents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-believe-the-usa-would-become-the-ussr/458470.md?page=3)