# Did you know in 2016 how bad Trump really is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346 "2020-10-19T19:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/301 "2021-07-30T11:41:00Z")
I can’t remember how many times I was scared out of my wits during the Trump presidency and thought sure we’d be at war any minute, so I guess by that standard, he didn’t turn out to be as horrible as I thought. I feel like I need to add “yet” to the end of that sentence though. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/302 "2021-07-30T17:24:13Z")
I wasn’t surprised at how bad Trump turned out to be- but I _was_ surprised at how bad his party let him be. I expected the GOP to rein him in to keep politics “business as usual”. I fully expected the party to ostracize him as soon as he was no longer politically useful- but I didn’t expect his supporters to keep him in a position of power after losing the Presidency and costing the Republicans so much political power in just one term. I wasn’t disappointed in Trump. I was disappointed in his supporters and in the GOP in general. They’ve shown that they’d be perfectly happy to have the US turn into a dictatorship as long as their side is in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/303 "2021-08-01T04:18:27Z")
I never thought this was likely to be the problem, except maybe by accident. Trump is not a fighter he’s a fraud. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/304 "2021-08-01T13:18:30Z")
This ^. I think that among Rs, fiscal responsibility really means “_Stop spending money on Blacks and Mexicans._” But yeah let’s spend it on military occupations that go nowhere and bailing out corporations that nearly destroy the entire financial system. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/305 "2021-08-01T13:51:08Z")
Well, I certainly never said it wouldn’t be an accident and I didn’t rule out civil war. 🙂 I mean the dude is holding cabinet meetings! > **[Mark Meadows says 'Cabinet members' meeting at Trump's New Jersey golf club](https://sports.yahoo.com/mark-meadows-says-cabinet-members-175100892.html)** > > Former President Donald Trump has been holding meetings with "Cabinet members" at his golf club in New Jersey this week, according to a top ally. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/306 "2021-08-01T13:55:52Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > > [@eschereal](#): > > > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > > > Are you saying the MAGAts know it’s all bullshit? > > > > It has been compared to the classic “pigeon drop”, where the mark believes they are in on fleecing that other guy (who is often a secret associate of the con artist). The MAGAts believe that they are all in on the job and will get their cut, or even if they fail to get a cut, at least the bad guys will get a proper sodding. > > So your average red hat MAGAt knows the Big Lie is a big lie – i.e., knows Biden won – but just goes along with it because he or she thinks that it will help elevate them to some GOP paradise? The pigeon drop concept doesn’t require them to know about the Big Lie. They just have to be in on the little lies. And I have seen sufficient evidence that they were in on the little lies. I and others would point out that things he said weren’t true, and we would be told we were stupid for taking him literally, like with the wall stuff. It was also a good thing if he could cheat on his taxes and get away with it. It was good that he was bringing in incompetent people to run certain branches of government. It was good that what he said would get the libs upset, but he didn’t really mean it. The Big Lie is about the election. And that one is the con he has on them. That’s the con that many don’t realize is there. Though I’d also suggest that many do, like those on Congress who conspired to help him and the pundits who clearly acted like Biden had won only to backtrack. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/307 "2021-08-01T14:01:32Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Not that anything he did was good, or that he didn’t do many catastrophic things. I thought there was a pretty solid chance his administration would cause a nuclear war. That did not happen, so that’s nice. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/308 "2021-08-01T16:41:43Z")
I would say that the REAL big lie, the lie that anchors all the other lies, big and little - is “Donald Trump is always right.” That lie is the constant in TrumpWorld, the sun at center of the Trump universe. Everything else, including the fiction of election fraud, is just part of the attempt to keep the world revolving around that one constant. His followers believe, religiously, that Donald Trump is always right. They believe that Trump really won the election because he says he did, and he’s always right. It’s not that they believe or disbelieve the evidence of election fraud, it’s irrelevant. If Trump says he won, he won. Period. It’s a prophet cult dynamic. Trump understands this, it’s why he never apologizes or backtracks. I don’t think that this is really about winning the Presidency back in 2024, at least not yet. Its about grifting the supporters. These rallies and revenge tours three years ahead of the next Presidential election, are a horrible waste of money if you’re really campaigning — but they are being held to gin up the base so they’ll keep checking that checkbox to show that they “Stand With President Trump”. I’m not sure whether or not Trump will run in 2024, but I do understand that it’s his big cliffhanger. If he announces it at any time before the last minute possible - he’ll walk it back. I expect him to do this for the next three years, hint he’s going to run, then hint that he’s not, he’ll support Candidate X, get mad at candidates X lack of loyalty, announce he’ll probably run against Candidate X, pull back out again to support Candidate Y…………. I just hope they waste lots of money. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/309 "2021-08-01T16:45:22Z")
It just launders its way back into his pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/310 "2021-08-02T01:02:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The Big Lie is about the election. And that one is the con he has on them. That’s the con that many don’t realize is there. Though I’d also suggest that many do, like those on Congress who conspired to help him and the pundits who clearly acted like Biden had won only to backtrack. No that’s just another little one. That’s another part of the pigeon drop, another lie the “pigeon” thinks they are in on. The Big Lie in a pigeon drop is always the lie that hides from the pigeon that the fraud is being perpetrated on the pigeon. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I would say that the REAL big lie, the lie that anchors all the other lies, big and little - is “Donald Trump is always right.” That lie is the constant in TrumpWorld, the sun at center of the Trump universe. Not really. “Trump is always right” is more how the little lies are sold. It is not the Big Lie. The Big Lie of the Trump machine is that it has any intention of doing anything substantial for its supporters, and that its real goal is anything other than personally benefiting Trump and his inner circle. That is why it is a pigeon drop – the very essence of a pigeon drop is that the pigeon believes the perps are helping the pigeon in a con on others, while in fact the perp is ripping off the pigeon. It is the last part that is always the Biggest (and best hidden) Lie. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/311 "2021-08-02T02:49:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I thought there was a pretty solid chance his administration would cause a nuclear war. That did not happen, so that’s nice. Remember Soleimani? He literally tried to get into a shooting war with Iran in early '20, in order to gain public support. Even in the fall, he was still trying to get an Iran war started. In the first case, Iran measured their response and no casus belli could be ginned up. In the second case, he discussed it with the Joint Chiefs, about how to get an Iran war going, and they told him, not going to happen. We are supremely lucky that he is so incompetent and so inept at getting people to do what he wants. Chances are the Rs will find someone else, who has actual skill and cunning, in their ongoing SodAmerica pursuits. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/312 "2021-08-03T03:31:30Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Remember Soleimani? He literally tried to get into a shooting war with Iran in early '20, in order to gain public support. Even in the fall, he was still trying to get an Iran war started. In the first case, Iran measured their response and no casus belli could be ginned up. In the second case, he discussed it with the Joint Chiefs, about how to get an Iran war going, and they told him, not going to happen. > > We are supremely lucky that he is so incompetent and so inept at getting people to do what he wants. Chances are the Rs will find someone else, who has actual skill and cunning, in their ongoing SodAmerica pursuits. - 100% this. And Trump 2.0\* will make it job one to get rid of anyone who, like those Joint Chiefs of Staff in your example, would say “no” to _anything_ he proposes. \ \*Definitely NOT suggesting here that Don Jr. has a shot; just using the Trump 2.0 phrase in the sense of ‘just as sociopathic but more competent.’ My money at the moment would be on a Ron DeSantis/Josh Hawley ticket: sufficiently white and sufficiently male to please the right-wing base, and sufficiently ruthless and sufficiently anti-democracy to get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/313 "2021-08-08T08:20:59Z")
Go read the OANN comments sometime. Any politician who has even _one_ policy difference from Trump is a RINO who must be voted out of office as soon as possible. There is _NO_ dissension in the ranks allowed. They still believe in the Big Lie, and that the fraud uncovered will put Trump back in office because Biden and Harris will be ruled ineligible, and so he gets re-elected by default. They believe that Biden is drooling into his pudding, while Trump is just short of Steven Hawking’s IQ. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2021, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/314 "2021-08-09T01:28:25Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Go read the OANN comments sometime. Any politician who has even _one_ policy difference from Trump is a RINO who must be voted out of office as soon as possible. The funny thing is that these people would tell you they were into freedom and individuality but they are demonstrating the type of leader-worship that would make Mao or Stalin or Big Brother proud. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/315 "2021-08-10T16:42:47Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > while Trump is just short of Steven Hawking’s IQ. RINO!!! Everyone knows Trump is the smartest stablest genius ever! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/316 "2021-08-10T20:28:11Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The funny thing is that these people would tell you they were into freedom and individuality but they are demonstrating the type of leader-worship that would make Mao or Stalin or Big Brother proud. # _FREEDOM!_ some restrictions may apply, to Liberals, non-WHITES, LGBTQIA+ & other undesirables ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/317 "2021-08-11T00:37:00Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > FREEDOM! As a consequence of someone poisoning my mind with this clip, it is simply no longer possible for me to hear “FREEDOM!” without, well, I won’t spoil it - [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wAsmEzP84eE/maxresdefault.jpg "Braveheart Sound Guy | Kevin James") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAsmEzP84eE) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/318 "2021-08-11T13:11:29Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > As a consequence of someone poisoning my mind with this clip, it is simply no longer possible for me to hear “FREEDOM!” without, well, I won’t spoil it - How 'bout a very young Joel McHale: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/F6UkJkUxyvs/maxresdefault.jpg "The Late Report ( S14E18 )") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6UkJkUxyvs&t=125) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/319 "2021-08-11T13:31:40Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Trump is just short of Steven Hawking’s IQ. Hawking’s current one, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/320 "2021-08-11T13:50:38Z")
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