# Did you know in 2016 how bad Trump really is? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 19, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346 "2020-10-19T19:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/141 "2020-10-22T18:56:06Z")
I’m not talking about unaccompanied minors but children who were separated from their parents. ---
**Author:** ![ThatCanadianGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@ThatCanadianGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThatCanadianGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/142 "2020-10-22T19:03:37Z")
I remember watching the returns on election night in 2016. My son, 18 at the time, said something to the effect that things won’t change. Oh, the optimism and inexperience of youth. I remember going to bed early when it was clear Trump would win. I had a pit in my stomach. Later that week, I went to get a haircut. I don’t tend to talk when I do. The woman cutting my hair asked as she finished, what do you think of Trump? I just came out with it: he’s a sexist, racist buffoon. Let’s hope there won’t be a major crisis like a 9/11 in the next four years. As it turned out, there was and is, a much bigger one that exposed what Trump really is like, on top of all the other stupid things he did. Also as it turned out, I was too nice to call him a sexist, racist buffoon. I should have used more adjectives. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/143 "2020-10-22T19:10:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m not talking about unaccompanied minors but children who were separated from their parents. > **[DNA tests reveal 30% of suspected fraudulent migrant families were unrelated](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/?p=223716)** > > Some of the migrant families arrested at the southern border weren’t actually families. In a pilot program, approximately 30% of rapid DNA tests of immigrant adults who were suspected of arriving at the southern border with children who weren’t... “…There’s been some concern about, ‘ **Are they stepfathers or adopted fathers**?’” the official said. “Those were **not the case**. In these cases, they are **misrepresented as family members**.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/144 "2020-10-22T19:15:49Z")
What does that have to do with the 545 children separated from their parents? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/145 "2020-10-22T19:35:05Z")
> [@McDeath\_the\_Mad](#): > > I’m not saying no Americans would have died if he had he had a competent COVID response, but I would think the number would be well under 100k. If the US had handled it as well as Canada, then at the current death rate of 260/million in Canada, the US equivalent would have been in the ballpark of 86,000 deaths to date. And I don’t think we did a great job in Canada, particularly early on. We could have been better. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/146 "2020-10-22T19:41:29Z")
Could you leave those goal posts alone? The claim that you made was that it was most likely that these children were not brought by their parents. Then you try to back that up by a story about unaccompanied children, which is irrelevant to children brought by parents. Now you have a claim that 30% _of suspected_ fraudulent migrant families are unrelated, which once again does not back your claim, for a few reasons. The first is that it is of the subset of those who were _suspected_ of fraud, not of the total. Then there is the fact that, out of this subset of those they _suspected_ they were only 30% correct in their suspicions. So, 70% of those suspected of being fraudulent were not. And those suspected of being fraudulent were a subset of the total. Also, even in the case where they are not biologically related, that does not mean that they are not still family friends or other ways responsible guardians. You have given 2 cites now, neither of which, supports, and in fact one of which directly refutes your assertion that the kids are most likely separated from people who were not their parents. Did you have any other citations you would like to try to back what seems to be a completely debunked assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/147 "2020-10-22T19:42:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What does that have to do with the 545 children separated from their parents? I think it means that over 150 of those kids weren’t separated from their parents at all. See? It’s all a big deal over nothing. It’s really more like 400 kids separated from their parents. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/148 "2020-10-22T19:43:43Z")
Congress should call Bobulinski to testify under oath about this. Sounds very serious, do you think that they will? How do you think that he will respond to a summons? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/149 "2020-10-22T19:49:12Z")
While it does mean that at least 400 of these children _were_ separated from their biological parents, I don’t know that it actually indicates that these were in the subgroup that were suspected as fraudulent. I’m not sure what percentage were suspected as fraudulent in the first place, but it is only out of that subgroup that 30% turned out to be so. There has been nothing that @agzem has cited that indicates that _any_ of these children were not brought here with their legitimate biological parents, and all he has cited is that a _maximum_ of 150 could have possibly been brought by someone unrelated, and probably substantially fewer. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/150 "2020-10-22T20:01:27Z")
You are citing irrelevance to create nonsense. You have no valid argument. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If the US had handled it as well as Canada, then at the current death rate of 260/million in Canada, the US equivalent would have been in the ballpark of 86,000 deaths to date. And I don’t think we did a great job in Canada, particularly early on. We could have been better. Why be so provincial as to look only at Canada? If we had done as well as Korea, we would have about 3,020 deaths instead of over 219,000. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/151 "2020-10-22T20:23:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Congress should call Bobulinski to testify under oath about this. Sounds like Bobulinski is willing to testify since he’s already voluntarily gone on the record. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/152 "2020-10-22T20:26:17Z")
Okay, then you agree. He should go testify to congress, under oath, and answer any questions that they may have about these business dealings. Being on record with a reporter for the New York Post is fine and all, but it’s not really the same thing, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/153 "2020-10-22T20:39:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Being on record with a reporter for the New York Post is fine and all, but it’s not really the same thing, now is it? Of course not. I think it’s certain that there will be hearings and these witnesses will be under oath. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/154 "2020-10-22T20:56:33Z")
Yeah, it would be interesting to actually see the timelines, as the ones that are currently indicated don’t really line up, and to see the actual metadata of the texts and emails, as screenshots aren’t really all that valid, and it would be interesting to see some corroboration of his claims, as well as seeing what he has to say while being cross examined under oath. I guess the other alternative would be, if the Biden family feels that these claims are false and defamatory, that he may be subpoenaed in a defamation suit, in which case he would be subject to cross examination of his claims. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/155 "2020-10-22T21:11:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > and all he has cited is that a _maximum_ of 150 could have possibly been brought by someone unrelated, and probably substantially fewer. According to the article it was pilot program that lasted only a few days and was used only in McAllen, Texas and El Paso, Texas. So if the testing were expanded and there were similar percentages then the numbers could be much higher. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/156 "2020-10-22T21:20:58Z")
That’s… not how percentages work. If there were similar percentages, then you have indicated that it is possible that 30% of those children are not biologically related to the people that they were taken from, at a maximum. Which would mean a maximum of ~150. Further testing with similar percentages would not change that. This does not fit with your claim that they are most likely not related to the people that they were taken from. It actually refutes your claim, in that it would mean that 70% of those children _were_ biologically related to those they were taken from. And once again, that is of the subgroup that was suspected of fraud, which apparently, their suspicions are not too accurate, as 70% of the time, they were wrong. So, that actually lowers that number even further. Did you have any other cites you would like to use to try to support your assertion that it is likely that who brought them here were not their parents? So far, all you have done is undermine your own claim. ---
**Author:** ![agzem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@agzem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agzem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/157 "2020-10-22T21:35:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > That’s… not how percentages work. If testing were expanded to other locations then 30% of a larger number would be **waaaay** more than 150. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/158 "2020-10-23T02:04:44Z")
Getting back to the OP, the Trump presidency had been pretty much as bad as I expected. I will admit I figured Trump would start a war and he’s managed to avoid that. But I didn’t predict the country would be struck by a plague and I feel that balances it out. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/159 "2020-10-23T04:14:44Z")
Here’s what I had to say in [July 2016](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/go-trump-go/759836/10): > Now imagine if it’s the President of the United States who says these things and adopts that tone. How many Muslim, Jewish, transgender and female Americans will suffer because of things that President Trump says? How much subtle bigotry will they experience through bullying, being denied jobs and educational opportunities, being made to feel oppressed in their own neighborhoods?..How much violence against minorities will be sanctioned? How much tilting of the justice system? How much sexual assault? How many financial shenanigans? > Maybe the Democrats would be swept in after a Trump Presidency. But what if the truly ugly Trump rhetoric creates a truly ugly America? How are we going to regain sanity and bipartisanship after four years of a President who supports and encourages individuals to treat each other with such contempt? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2020, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346/160 "2020-10-23T12:16:00Z")
That’s… still not how percentages work. We have 545 kids who were separated from their parents and cannot be reunited due to the incompetence of this administration. That is the number we are talking about here. 30% of that is 163. Sure, 30% of a larger number would be a larger number, but we are not talking about a larger number, we are talking about these specific 545 kids, who you said were most likely not related to the people that brought them. I’m just look for you to give any evidence whatsoever to back this assertion. So far, you have not done so. At all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-in-2016-how-bad-trump-really-is/923346.md?page=9)