# Did you know that God has only one requirement for a person to enter Heaven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465 "2005-01-13T00:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/61 "2005-01-13T15:22:36Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I’m saying everyone gets saved. > > What’s your take on it? I have been told that God picks who He wants saved; if youre not on the list, forget it. Myself, I just don’t know. it would be nice if everyone ended up in their idea of Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/62 "2005-01-13T15:37:48Z")
I would really like for the OP to come back and address my points and **Polycarp** ’s. I was going to send him/her an email inviting them back to the discussion, but seeing as how it’s rather generic email address, I’m afraid that it might result in not one but fifty or more people coming back here to do drive-by witnessing. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/63 "2005-01-13T15:38:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I feel much as you do. Stephen Gaskin and what little else I have ever heard of The Farm have always struck me as people trying to do the right thing. God knows that no Christian ever had a mystical experience! :dubious: Heh. My sister was born on the Farm, delivered by Ina Mae Gaskin, one of Stephen’s wives and a famous midwife. On the other hand, my dad left the farm after Stephen forbade him from eating chocolate or wearing red clothing\*. Daniel - This is my dad’s version of the story; I’ve never heard Stephen’s. ---
**Author:** ![Strainger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strainger/32/244_2.png) [@Strainger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strainger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/64 "2005-01-13T17:23:24Z")
SINNERS! [JESUS IS GOIGN TO EAT YOU"RE BRAINS](http://www.thefunny.org/easter.php). ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/65 "2005-01-13T17:44:22Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > **Moderator’s Note:** Just a reminder to everyone that Great Debates _is_ the proper forum for “religious debates and (if you feel you must) witnessing”. But this does not look like someone writing a personal message of witnessing, it looks more like a splurge email, and advertisment to multiple related web sites. (forgive me if this reply should have been made into a pit thread, just doesn’t seem worthy of being in the pit to me) ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/66 "2005-01-13T21:25:04Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Shub-Niggurauth shall return to bear its thousand young. Others shall abide in the earth, or howl in the skies. Yeah, but she’s easy to defeat. Stand near one of the teleporters and shoot anything that gets too close, and wait for the flying thing to disappear into her. Jump into the teleporter, and you’ll tele-frag her into next week. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/67 "2005-01-13T22:34:34Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > But this does not look like someone writing a personal message of witnessing, it looks more like a splurge email, and advertisment to multiple related web sites. > (forgive me if this reply should have been made into a pit thread, just doesn’t seem worthy of being in the pit to me) I vote spam. If you are a guest and you start a thread (always a bad bad sign), and that’s the only post you ever post and it has all the halmarks of being just a copy/paste job… well I have to vote that it’s not witnessing so much as it is spam. If Guests couldn’t start threads, but could only reply to them, I think this sort of problem would be much more identifiable: their crazy spam posts would be obviously offtopic and out of context in whatever thread they chose to stick it in. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/68 "2005-01-13T22:48:57Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > I vote spam. If you are a guest and you start a thread (always a bad bad sign), and that’s the only post you ever post and it has all the halmarks of being just a copy/paste job… well I have to vote that it’s not witnessing so much as it is spam. If Guests couldn’t start threads, but could only reply to them, I think this sort of problem would be much more identifiable: their crazy spam posts would be obviously offtopic and out of context in whatever thread they chose to stick it in. I agree. At the very least the links at the bottom are indicative of spam. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/69 "2005-01-13T22:55:53Z")
Well, this is not in zee Pit, so I will just say I’m an Atheist and I think you are all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/70 "2005-01-14T01:44:41Z")
isn’t this how the straightdope vs, the left behind board war started? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/71 "2005-01-14T03:32:34Z")
I sent the following letter to the OP (with the approval of **TubaDiva** ) asking the OP to come back and address the points made by myself and **Polycarp** Dear Mr./Ms. Grossi, You posted a thread on the Straight Dope Message Board yesterday entitled “Did you know that God has only one requirement for a person to enter Heaven?”. The thread can be found at the following link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296607&page=1&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296607&page=1&pp=50) Your thread has prompted quite a response. As with any diverse community, there was a range of responses to your posting, from the thoughtful to the nasty. I’d appreciate it if you could come back to the forum and answer two of the responses, one by myself (poster name: zev\_steinhardt), a non-Christian, and one by Polycarp (a Christian). Your thoughtful responses to our posts would certainly go much further toward your goal of spreading the positive messages of Christianity than simply leaving after the single post you left behind. I am posting this letter in the thread, so that the other people on the boards will see that you came back at my invitation. Yours truly, Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/72 "2005-01-14T06:17:01Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Dear Doc, > > If Cthulu is the omnimalignant entity of ultimate evil, why does he allow good things to happen? Here we see a common misconception. Cthulu is not evil. I know, that seems impossible to you. This is because of your limited human perspective. The human race is an uninvited infestation. This is not your world. This is the domain of the Great Old Ones. Yes, they will destroy you when they return. But, this not unlike a man who returns home from vacation finding his house filled with ants and setting off a bug bomb. The analogy only fails in that Cthulu shall scarcely even notice the human race. You also make the mistake of thinking in a human time scale. What matter if a civilization or two shall rise and fall while dead Cthulu dreams? He is timeless and unending. What matter if a life or two has a happy ending? The human race shall have a most unhappy ending indeed. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/73 "2005-01-14T06:31:43Z")
This is the problem I have with Religion. A goofball came in here and ranted his nonsense and yet you all read it and then commented on it out to two pages. Leave this crap alone. It makes no more sense than someone coming into GD and stating that Cthulu (sp) is the One True God. And yet if someones does that, you treat it all as a joke. Why does Christianity get a pass?? Fuck that. In 10,000 years we will be beyond this superstitious nonsense. Or we will be dead. Gone. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/74 "2005-01-14T06:57:48Z")
> [@I Love Me](#): > > It makes no more sense than someone coming into GD and stating that Cthulu (sp) is the One True God. . He is not the One True God. Let us not forget Shub Niggurauth, Hastur, Yog Sothoth, Azathoth, Nyarlhotep, Ithaqua, Cthugga, and the other abominations that stalk through the halls of elder night. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/75 "2005-01-14T07:47:52Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Explain the verse I posted. [which was: > > “For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves.” > > (Ephesians 2:8) > > Its not even your faith. > > God ain’t sending anyone to hell.] You want me to explain that? Okay… well, it’s kind of awkwardly worded (which is a translation issue, not a content issue) but [in a little more context and a more understandable translation](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Ephesians%202;&version=31;) it sounds like it’s saying that God decides who will be saved, it’s not a choice you get to make for yourself. God will pick those who have faith, but it seems to be made pretty clear that it is His choice, not yours. If you agree with me that faith isn’t a choice, then it’s very true that salvation is not “of ourselves.” Okay? Did I get it right? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/76 "2005-01-14T08:05:39Z")
It might be helpful to see the grace of God working through his _faithfulness_. The Bible (especially the recorded words of Jesus) is clear enough to persuade me that there is no such thing as ‘eternal security’ (‘once a Christian, always a Christian’). We will be judged very largely according to what we do. (I take it that the definition of a Christian is one who believes in Jesus and his atoning death and resurrection.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/77 "2005-01-14T08:44:02Z")
Somehow I get the feeling that **AmazingGrace** isn’t going to be interested in sticking around to debate the issue, but on the offchance, I’d like to ask: If you’re right and your described method is the only way to avoid eternal torment, what provision, if any, is made for those who never got a chance to hear the message (such as aboriginal folks living in lands far distant from the place where Jesus lived and died, during the few years/decades/centuries between the event and the time when Christian missionaries arrived to tell them about it)? If exception is made for them, why would a deity described as being composed of infinite love not be able to make exception for others, for other reasons? (or in other words, wouldn’t an exception destroy the whole mechanistic concept of do-this-and-only-this-to-be-saved?) If an exception cannot be made for them, wouldn’t it be fair to describe God’s method of delivering salvation as _rather poorly executed_? ---
**Author:** ![AmazingGrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@AmazingGrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmazingGrace)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/78 "2005-01-14T14:59:58Z")
I can tell by your responses that you understood the message. You may have rejected the message a million times in the past but you can still change your eternal destiny right now by allowing God to save you through His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. The message will never change, but the message will change your eternal destiny if you allow Jesus to save you. Ron ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/79 "2005-01-14T15:01:10Z")
Ron, Thank you for returning. There were some points raised by me on the first page of this thread, as well as some points raised by **Polycarp** , who is a Christian. Can you please read them and address them? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465/80 "2005-01-14T15:02:59Z")
And, while we’re at it, **Mangetout** has a question that I’ve wondered about for a while as well. I would greatly appreciate it if you could address his question as well. Thank you, again. Zev Steinhardt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-know-that-god-has-only-one-requirement-for-a-person-to-enter-heaven/284465.md?page=5)