# Did you see the NYT Article on Yeshivas? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 12, 2022, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424 "2022-09-12T09:16:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/1 "2022-09-12T09:16:47Z")
Did you see [Sunday’s article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/nyregion/hasidic-yeshivas-schools-new-york.html) on Yeshivas in the New York area? The [Orthodox site](https://vinnews.com/) I follow is going nuts. They are not pointing out mistakes. They are just upset. In any case, the Times reported on the poor education (and the beatings) these students recieve. It also had at least two interesting charts. It seems none of these students can pass the regent’s exam. Not a one. Imagine that. What are the protections due to a religious minority in a matter such as this? What are the legitimate interests of the mainstream society in requiring a certain level of education? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/2 "2022-09-12T10:31:53Z")
Mainstream society has a very strong interest in requiring a certain level of education. Yeshivas get away with it because the Hasidic community practically votes as a bloc so politicians do not want to get on their bad side. It’s a terrible situation for the kids in those schools. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/3 "2022-09-12T10:35:13Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Did you see [Sunday’s article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/nyregion/hasidic-yeshivas-schools-new-york.html) on Yeshivas in the New York area? No, I didn’t, because it’s paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/4 "2022-09-12T10:55:50Z")
Here’s a gift link: > **[In Hasidic Enclaves, Failing Private Schools Flush With Public Money](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/11/nyregion/hasidic-yeshivas-schools-new-york.html?unlocked_article_code=pgXL_5sH1gKjysZe3LiQcNdcfFUvLycT3Ky8s5YnjBYVjiyOsxT8oqzvr8UsV3EeMByB_TBfWUsqMzUBMenzCyZVEpX3jzhRiR7e6Wt5KipLPoZXNpiKNExDSOKMi8pPrZHC1xr7kXBpqceh02O0johVfWrOrFZJzsJVQs482phXrkqGPqSxwJyLhTmmM0iFn5BlCgLvkVp1O2VcAFk7WKT2jWoGFHK7TemqKR_71zev10YHvy6lFqePI2eOGQX7qeXk4KQgzok6fLSAkw3anuMtqUS0Q8BOnz49yPD5sq72DoEPY9QiQ_42Br3KE1UBGhGeRlh6nYe1oP5XsP8lspNct8dXeRMvjGZ8kw&smid=share-url)** > > New York’s Hasidic Jewish religious schools have benefited from $1 billion in government funding in the last four years but are unaccountable to outside oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/5 "2022-09-12T11:15:04Z")
Truly depressing. These schools are failing to equip their students with the tools they need to function in 21st century society, and their backers are so institutionally powerful that it seems that nobody has the ability to make them do better. I was particularly moved by the story of the runaway who learned English from Dr. Seuss at age 28. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/6 "2022-09-12T11:38:08Z")
Taking the money should carry with it at least a minimum amount of accountability. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/7 "2022-09-12T11:40:08Z")
If I were king and tyrant, I would require anything called a school to have some minimum standards, whether or not they took public money. But, if they take public money, yes, even more so. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/8 "2022-09-12T11:43:35Z")
Private schools, religious or not, should not receive public funding. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/9 "2022-09-12T11:49:03Z")
The article was also printed in Yiddish at the NYT site, and the headline appeared in Hebrew characters on the NYT RSS feed I use on my browser’s home page. When you clicked on it, you got to the Yiddish version, which had a link to show the English translation. My wife has read several books about the Hasids, and we’ve seen a few documentaries and docu-dramas about the way they make it nearly impossible for anyone in their community to learn about or survive in the outside world. Anyone who tries to leave is immediately and totally cut off from everyone they ever knew, and with limited English or experience in the outside world, they are virtually unemployable. Completely cast adrift. (We recommend the excellent Netflix miniseries _[Unorthodox](https://www.netflix.com/us/title/81019069?s=a&trkid=13747225&t=cp&vlang=en&clip=81127763)._) The Hasids’ level of fanaticism is bizarre and somewhat scary, but it would only be weird and perhaps no one else’s business if they weren’t taking huge amounts of public money to fund their schools. That makes it corrupt and criminal, both on their part and on the part of the politicians who are afraid to say no or hold them responsible. The NY state department of education has been trying for years to implement regulations that would make the schools more accountable, but has gotten no support. Non-fundamentslist Jews, including mainstream Orthodox and Conservative Jews, should denounce this corruption and make it clear to politicians and the public that this is not what Judaism stands for and that we do not support such corruption. Unfortunately, some Jews have a strange romantic notion that Hasids are a kind of “true” Judaism, and actually support them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/10 "2022-09-12T11:53:50Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Non-fundamentslist Jews, including mainstream Orthodox and Conservative Jews, should denounce this corruption and make it clear to politicians and the public that this is not what Judaism stands for and that we do not support such corruption. Yes. Gotta make sure the gentiles know that I’m one of the ‘good Jews’ and not one of the ‘bad Jews.’ ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/11 "2022-09-12T12:02:40Z")
I sense you’re being snarky, but I think it is important that people (and politicians) understand not that there are “good Jews” and “bad Jews,” but that Jews are not a monolithic bloc, and that the actions of a fanatical fundamentalist minority are not representative of, or supported by, the majority of Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/12 "2022-09-12T12:13:14Z")
Yeah, I’m very well aware that I’m expected to be ready - at a moment’s notice - to pop up and say, “Hey! Not all Jews are like that!” If you spend enough time in liberal circles, you will eventually have to make a choice of either making it super duper clear that you’re one of the good ones, or alienate people by pointing out that middle east politics are a bit more nuanced than “Israel = genocidal nazis.” I have no interest in participating in the dual loyalty canard - in this case reassuring people that my loyalty lies with American educational values before Jewry. This issue can be solely addressed on educational and political grounds. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/13 "2022-09-12T12:29:09Z")
Yeah, really it is not the responsibility of “mainstream Jews(/Muslims/Blacks/Latinos/Feminists)” to call out, and give the rest of society cover to go after, the extreme fringe. Society should be able to identify extremism or abuse and do something about it within the scope of protecting people’s rights and take what heat that may generate. But that’s partly why the problems mentioned in the article remain unadressed by those politically responsible. Nobody is going to dare be the politician who first “goes after” a branch of an important religious minority. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/14 "2022-09-12T13:05:22Z")
It is not clear that the issue of public funding is important. If these schools got not one penny from the public, should they be allowed to operate as they do? On the other hand, don’t religious and other minorities have certain rights? If I like the Amish schooling preserving their unique culture, how can I have a beef with the Othodox doing the same? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/15 "2022-09-12T13:10:27Z")
I’m not going to say its the responsibility of mainstream anything to callout the extreme fringe - it isn’t. But it’s also not the case that NYC politicians ignore the issues because they fear losing the votes of non-Hasidic Jews - it’s because the Hasids have disproportionate political power because of their voting patterns and overall low voter turnout. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/16 "2022-09-12T13:20:36Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > If I like the Amish schooling preserving their unique culture, how can I have a beef with the Othodox doing the same? Do the Amish also fail standardized tests? Honest question. I don’t think Hasidic culture demands a lack of knowledge of language, history, math and science. I don’t really understand your statement. Anyway, what does one culture have to do with the other? Did you mean this thread to be general let’s-discuss-bizarre-sects thread? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/17 "2022-09-12T13:27:44Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Did you mean this thread to be general let’s-discuss-bizarre-sects thread? No. Thank you for the question. I am musing on the relationship between majorities and minorities when it comes to educational standards. closing the minority schools would be a big step towards destroying the minority culture. On the other hand, can the majority make reasonable demands of all schools, even those that do not get public funds? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/18 "2022-09-12T13:31:47Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > closing the minority schools would be a big step towards destroying the minority culture. On the other hand, can the majority make reasonable demands of all schools, even those that do not get public funds? Catholic schools operate just fine and educate kids well. Can society make reasonable demands of all schools? I think yes, as long as it was religion neutral. Society has an interest in an educated populace. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/19 "2022-09-12T13:40:26Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > If I like the Amish schooling preserving their unique culture, how can I have a beef with the Othodox doing the same? The issue is not about preserving a unique culture , it’s about abiding by the educational standards set for schools and taking public money. There are plenty of groups that preserve their culture even while providing an education that will allow children to grow up and support themselves. Some of them have religious and/or language and cultural schools that children attend outside of secular school hours and others ( including Modern Orthodox schools) manage to teach both secular subjects and religious subjects in a single school but the group in question is the only one I know of that resists providing secular education and any instruction in English. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424/20 "2022-09-12T13:47:06Z")
Shitty schools are shitty, but I noticed that the article repeatedly draws attention to the Yiddish language. It is not that teaching classes in Yiddish, French, Latin, or Esperanto makes a school shitty. _Not_ teaching English, mathematics, chemistry, etc. is a problem. I suspect that the described schools do a poor job of teaching religious subjects, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/did-you-see-the-nyt-article-on-yeshivas/971424.md?page=2)