# Didn't Iraq have an airforce?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 6, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784 "2003-04-06T01:54:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Concensus\_gentium\_fallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Concensus_gentium_fallacy)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/1 "2003-04-06T01:54:29Z")
I thought that before the war we were sure they had planes in shallow dugout garages with sand roofs to fool the satellites.
But I haven’t heard about any Iraqi planes operating in the war at all.
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### Author:  [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/2 "2003-04-06T02:11:05Z")
They still do, but they are not operating. They flew at times during Operations Northern Watch and Southern Watch, enforcement of the No Fly Zones over the last ten years or so, but if they flew now, they would have a worse track record than they did in 1991, when very, very few got to practice their landings.
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### Author:  [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/3 "2003-04-06T04:09:45Z")
Well, if the Iraqi planes took off, they would likely do one of two things:
1. Get shot down.
2. Fly to Iran.
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### Author:  [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/4 "2003-04-06T04:59:46Z")
At least a few planes were flying pre-war , I was under the impression that he may have had airplanes , but no pilots.
No matter the nation , pilots are usually the smartest people that an armed force can have , as well as the most worldly. The grunts on the ground may have no idea about what the american and british armies could do , but the pilots in the airforce sure as shit probably did.
Usually thats why most dictators love scuds, point and shoot , and reliable.
Declan
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### Author:  [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/5 "2003-04-06T05:21:20Z")
Just to back up what everyone else has said already, here’s a [BBC analysis](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2914015.stm):
> [@](#):
>
> The Iraqi air force - and army air force - have not been heard of since the war began.
>
> A US spokesman said the reason for their staying on the ground was simple: “If you fly, you die.”
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### Author:  [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/6 "2003-04-06T07:46:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Declan \*
> \*\*
> Usually thats why most dictators love scuds, point and shoot , and reliable.
>
> Declan \*\*
But not particulary accurate. Scuds were outdated 20 years ago and the Soviet Union retired them from service in the 1980’s.
I’ve heard it said that “If someone fires a scud at you, the best way to avoid getting hit is just to stand still”.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/7 "2003-04-06T08:02:58Z")
We should also note that to keep a military plane flying, it usually takes 2-3 mechanics per plane, and a whole hanger full of manuals & spare parts.
And since 1991 Iraq hasn’t had much opportunity to import spare parts, or to send mechanics off for training, etc. They probably had to cannabalize some planes for parts to keep others flying. And even so, the planes would be about 10-15 years old now – what is the expected service lifetime of modern military planes?
I really suspect that they didn’t have very many planes that were fully functional. And that was **before** our bombing strikes started.
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### Author:  [@Deptford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deptford)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/8 "2003-04-06T15:22:57Z")
Hell, the German scientists who built the V-2 would have laughed at the Scud’s Accuracy
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/9 "2003-04-06T15:35:22Z")
After Gulf War I, did Iran allow the Iraqi air force planes that had hightailed it across the border for saferty to return to Iraq, or did Iran impound them permanently?
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### Author:  [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/10 "2003-04-06T15:42:01Z")
“I’ve heard it said that “If someone fires a scud at you, the best way to avoid getting hit is just to stand still”.”
I like Sam Kinison’s explanation: You fire it, then you go home & turn on CNN to see where it landed.
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### Author:  [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/11 "2003-04-06T16:44:44Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by [t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) \*
> \*\*And since 1991 Iraq hasn’t had much opportunity to import spare parts, or to send mechanics off for training, etc. They probably had to cannabalize some planes for parts to keep others flying. And even so, the planes would be about 10-15 years old now – what is the expected service lifetime of modern military planes? \*\*
[ul][li] France and Russia were supplying parts and I’m sure training mechanics (if asked).[/li] Do you have any idea how old the B-52 is?[/ul]
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### Author:  [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/12 "2003-04-06T17:14:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Northern Piper \*
> \*\*After Gulf War I, did Iran allow the Iraqi air force planes that had hightailed it across the border for saferty to return to Iraq, or did Iran impound them permanently? \*\*
I recently heard on NPR that Iran kept the aircraft permanently.
Here’s an online reference:
[http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/military\_strategy/iraqi\_forces.html](http://www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/military_strategy/iraqi_forces.html)
> [@](#):
>
> The Iraqi Air Force lost “more than 500 combat aircraft in and immediately after the Gulf War, many when they fled to Iran and did not return,” according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
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### Author:  [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/13 "2003-04-06T17:18:13Z")
I just heard that our planes are now landing at Baghdad International. So now the question is where would the Iraqi Air Force operate out of anyway?
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### Author:  [@Scruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruff)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/14 "2003-04-06T20:20:20Z")
Well, the good ol’ USAF seems to be doing more damage than the Iraqi airforce could.
[Here’s a recent one](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2921743.stm). I wonder if the pilot will get a medal from Saddam?
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### Author:  [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/15 "2003-04-07T00:06:08Z")
We do control Baghdad International, but looking at a map, there is military air base east of Baghdad. Of course, by now we may have that also. Yes, the B-52 is old, but it has been steadily upgraded through the years.
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### Author:  [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-iraq-have-an-airforce/166784/16 "2003-04-07T00:12:20Z")
We do control Baghdad International, but looking at a map, there is military air base east of Baghdad. Of course, by now we may have that also. Maybe he should have invested in Harriers.