This is what I was ranting about the other day-when my thread was hijacked and then closed because of that.
happyheathen-I don’t know WHAT the fuck your deal is! So you don’t like religion-we get that. That you have issues with the church-fine. That’s your problem.
But I am sick and tired of your constant insinuations that the majority of Catholics were aware of this, and kept silent. Yes, we have all heard of priests who abused children. That’s nothing new.
However, NONE of us guessed the magnitude of it-because it was covered up, dillhole!
I have repeatedly pointed out to you the fact that the diocese in which I live has a VERY strict policy in regards to molestation. Bishop Wuerl went so far as to argue at the VATICAN courts when he refused to reassign a priest found guilty of molestation. And he WON.
Yet you continue to antagonize me.
And now-and NOW, you have sunk so fucking low. Comparing someone to the NAZIs because they were unaware IS “being a jerk!”
GO TO HELL YOU FUCKING GODDAMN LOSER! I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR CRAP! IF IT WERE UP TO ME YOU WOULD BE BANNED SO FUCKING FAST! GODDAMMIT, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS!!!
FUCK YOU, you insufferable, hateful, waste of a human being!
as always, thank you for your kind, reasoned response.
HINT: not everything is about YOU! get a grip.
Others:
a novel thought: answer the question, discuss the question, but don’t waste bandwidth attacking the poster?
The 're-assign the guilty out of the reach of the local police is/has been used by:
churches (the Angican Church in Canada is also in serious trouble over this one)
armed forces (the surrender of the creeps to the local Japanese authorities a few years ago was a HUGE first).
so, yes, the Q remains:
if you have never heard whispers re. the ‘real’ reason Fr. X was transferred, how old are you?
“We’ve all heard the stories…” or the like is not proof, it is not evidence. Heck, how many of those stories are based on what really happened and how many are based on what people like to say about stuff they don’t understand?
Lot’s of people say things about my church and what happens in the Temple. Let’s see; we’ve a secret agenda, we worship Satan, and those are just the two biggest lies.
Think about the issue, hh. (I know, that’s presuming hh thinks.) What is your proof? Is it valid proof?
I rarely post in the Pit, but I just had to say that this is possibly the most offensive thing I have ever read on this board.
You knew that there were pedophiles in the church (and I’m not clear on how you could know there was a “practice” of child molestation without knowing of any specific acts), but you chose to “let them do as they saw fit” because the children who were being molested were Catholic?
So when would you consider it appropriate to intervene to prevent child molestation? Only if the kids were of the same religion as you? Only if they were your kids? Oh, but wait, you don’t have any kids, so I guess it’s all just someone else’s problem.
You stood by and did nothing, and yet you condemn every Catholic for presumably the same behavior. They at least claim ignorance. What is your excuse, hypocrisyheathen?
To paraphrase The Princess Bride, I do not think this forum means what you think it means…
If you wanted reasoned arguments and discussion, you should have posted a much less inflammatory and insulting OP in Great Debates.
Instead, you posted a comparison of the rank and file laity of the Roman Catholic Church to the people of Germany during the Nazi era in The BBQ Pit. And then turn around and demand that now that you’ve got your licks in, we have to pull our punches.
Fat fucking chance. Not only is this a dishonest tactic that reeks of hypocrisy and a seriously miscalculated Board response, it’s an argument that was born tired. That dog won’t hunt. That bird won’t fly. That flame won’t burn.
Pack it up and go picket a cathedral. You’re not outraged about the pedophile priest situation. You’re merely co-opting these families’ suffering for your own pre-existing anti-Catholic bullshit. That’s low. That’s vile. And I find myself disgusted to occasionally share a worldview with you (when my spiritual pendulum swings to pagan).
To paraphrase The Princess Bride, I do not think this forum means what you think it means…
If you wanted reasoned arguments and discussion, you should have posted a much less inflammatory and insulting OP in Great Debates.
Instead, you posted a comparison of the rank and file laity of the Roman Catholic Church to the people of Germany during the Nazi era in The BBQ Pit. And then turn around and demand that now that you’ve got your licks in, we have to pull our punches.
Fat fucking chance. Not only is this a dishonest tactic that reeks of hypocrisy and a seriously miscalculated Board response, it’s an argument that was born tired. That dog won’t hunt. That bird won’t fly. That flame won’t burn.
Pack it up and go picket a cathedral. You’re not outraged about the pedophile priest situation. You’re merely co-opting these families’ suffering for your own pre-existing anti-Catholic bullshit. That’s low. That’s vile. And I find myself disgusted to occasionally share a worldview with you (when my spiritual pendulum swings to pagan).
Actually, atheists are created by an elaborate and painful procedure involving goats, spray-cheese, Little Sizzlers[sup]TM[/sup], and the grafting of an adamantium endoskeleton to our bone structures. I’m not allowed to say anything more than that.
Father before Father Russo: Died after serving the parish for a long time. Was rather beloved by everyone except my mother, and the reasons for my mother’s dislike had nothing to do with molestation.
Father Russo: Still there.
Father Louie: Joined Fr. Russo. Transferred to St. Catherine’s. Which is about 5 miles away.
Father Perfecto: Came after Fr. Louie left. Is still there.
I haven’t been to church at home in a while, so there might be more, but I haven’t heard about it.
I think that you’re assuming that every parish has or has had a priest who has molested children, and that every Catholic there actively kept their mouth shut. That is not the case.
Speaking as someone who was raised Catholic, the only cases we knew about were the cases that were on the news. We followed the Cardinal Bernadin case, and others (I truly believe Bernadin is innocent). We also heard about teachers who were accused of molestation, and about a child pornographer who was found two blocks from my elementary school. They were arrested, charged, convicted. Did that mean that we assumed that every teacher at my school was a child molester? Did we assume that everyone living by the school was a child pornographer?
No, we didn’t. And we assumed that, just as those teachers who molested children were arrested, so too were those priests who molested children. We assumed that they were few and far between.
As others have said, why didn’t you do anything? You thought the church would take care of it? And you let it sit for twenty years, when you knew about it? Shit. You bastard. Letting it happen, when you ADMIT that you knew…in my book, that’s about a million times worse than being ignorant.
Of course, in your book, being Catholic is sin enough.
Either you are accusing Catholics have having specific knowledge of such actions and doing nothing, or you are accusing Catholics of having general knowledge and doing nothing.
In the first case, you not only have no proof, but several Catholics have posted to this thread testifying that they had no specific knowledge, thereby refuting your claim.
In the second case, you have admitted to having general knowledge, thereby implicating yourself in the accusation.
Either way you are at fault. If I am misunderstanding in anyway, please tell me.
And I think I might be misunderstanding, because I think you just asked a mod to close a Pit thread for generating heat.
I mean seriously, even the figurative name “BBQ Pit” should be a dead giveaway that things are supposed to “heat up.” You even used the same metaphor. Really.
Let me get this straight-you post inflammatory, bigoted hateful remarks in the Pit, and then, when you get deservedly get your ass handed to you for it-you ask the mods to close the thread, because it generates too much “heat?”
…Cuz you just know that happyheathen is all about generating light, knowledge and balanced inquiry, when it comes to Catholicism…
(you know, sorta like JDT and the snippidty snip).
Here’s a thought…when most of those who are chastising you are not Catholic, and a fair number are not even theists…and yet they’re STILL annoyed with your two bit crusade, it’s time to pick up the white courtesy clue phone and call it a day.
I think this thread should be closed too. It’s so pointless. Happyheathen, your OP was so vague, I can’t even figure out if you really had a point to begin with. People are taking this as an attack equating catholics to nazis, which I don’t think was your intent, but I really haven’t been around here long enough to make such presumptions.
Besides, this is what I believe is referred to as a pile-on, which is so tedious. Let’s argue about the Jesuits worshipping Satan and taking over the country. That’s sounds more fun.
I first heard about the cover-ups about 10 years ago. Considering that I heard about them through articles and books describing cases where priests had been sent to prison, and dioceses had been successfully sued for large sums of money, I don’t think I was unjustified in believing the practice had ended. To be honest, I’m not sure that the practice of reassigning priests to parishes hasn’t ended for the most part, since the articles I’ve seen locally all describe cases where the abuse took place 10 or more years ago.
I’m 38 years old. I’ve never known anyone who was abused by a priest , and the only whispers about the real reason "Father X was transferred " were that he was involved with a woman .
I’m sure some did, and I’m sure others didn’t. But even if it was talked about around the parish, I’m sure the people were led to believe that the priest would not be reassigned to a place where he would have access to children. And certainly. no parents were told that the priest who molested their child had previously molested others.
Doreen
No, happyheathen, we can’t rest assured of that, since in the exact same post you said this:
Now, try to follow my logic here while I tell you exactly why those statements contradict each other.
-First, you say that you didn’t have enough knowledge to “nail the bastard.” (We’ll label that premise as “A”)
-So, anyone with the same amount of knowledge as you would, logically, also not be able to “nail the bastard.” (“B”)
-You then state that you thought that “those in the Church were as aware of the situation as I was.” In other words, they had the same amount of knowledge as you did. (“C”)
And that means that Catholics, too, would not be able to “nail the bastard.” (D)
In other words,
A --> B (given)
C --> A (given)
(C–>B) --> D (given)
C–> B (hypothetical syllogism 1, 3)
D (Modus Ponens 3, 4)
Therefore, by your post, even if your assumptions were correct, the members of the Catholic church would not have been able to “nail the bastard.”
But, in your OP, you state that Catholics had full ability to “nail the bastards.” ("~D")
So, by your premises, you have made the statement of (~D * D). This is a logical impossibility. Do you see now where your argument is flawed? A statement cannot be both true and not true. That gets messy.
But now, in the spirit of understanding, I would like to introduce a few new premises. First, I think we can assume that if your argument contradicts itself, (“E”), then you are using a hypocritical argument (“H”). Also, we can assume that if a person both uses a hypocritical argument (“H”) and refuses to listen to reason (“R”), then that person is a Complete Fucking Moron. (“CFM”)
In other words:
(D*~D)–> E (given)
E–>H (given)
(H*R)–> CFM (given)
D*~D (given)
E (modus ponens)
H (modus ponens)
So here you have yourself in a pickle, happyheathen. All that you need to do in order to be logically proven to be a Complete Fucking Moron is to blatantly refuse to listen to reason. This has been proven through the accepted rules of logic, so you can’t come back with one of your assinine implications that I’m not adding anything to the debate. Others have said it much better that I have, of course, but I thought I should make it completely clear to you. (You’re lucky, it was either this or a truth table).
Some might say that you have already refused to listen to reason, but me, I’m a nice guy. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. If, in your next, oh, post to this thread, you continue to refuse to listen to reason, then the proof will be complete, and you will undeniably be a CFM. But you still have a chance to make amends. An apology might be a nice way of doing so, but that’s just my humble suggestion.
