# Didn't like Voyager? You would have if it had more white males! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343 "2013-06-19T06:48:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/41 "2013-06-19T20:49:46Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Plus, yeah, the premise of Starfleet and the Maquis working together and being one disagreement away from mutiny and death was a series ripe with storylines. Too bad none of them were explored. I definitely agree with this. Also, in the pilot, neither side trusted Tom Paris. But by episode 1 of the regular series, he was everybody’s buddy. It would have been much better to show him gaining respect gradually over a long time, and still encountering occasional hostility. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/42 "2013-06-19T20:56:04Z")
Voyager had DINOSAURS! On a SPACESHIP! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/43 "2013-06-19T20:58:30Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Chakotay and his religious crap was annoying. Neelix was frustratingly annoying, which was put up with so we could have Kes, and then they took her away and left us him. The problems with Janeway had nothing to do with her being female. I still don’t get why being in People’s Top 50 meant they kept Garret Wang. Did they really think those audiences overlapped? I know Kes was harder to write for, but they had just started figuring her out before they got rid of her. (Keeping her as Neelix’s girlfriend was holding her back tremendously, as she had to be, well, the type of person who would stay with Neelix.) I had a unique experience on the series, in that I discovered it and TNG and DS9 all at the same time, so I didn’t have the problems most people had with Voyager. Plus I was initially exposed via Internet recaps by a Voyager fan, rather than the actual show. This fan subconsciously fixed a lot of the flaws. That’s why I love sfdebris, as I finally get to see why people hated the show. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/44 "2013-06-19T21:10:56Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Chakotay and his religious crap was annoying. Funny story… they relied heavily on some guy named Jamake Highwater for the background elements of Chakotay. As it turns out, Highwater was a fraudster who peddled tripe under a fake name to appeal to various parties too stupid to realize they were being conned. And conned rather obviously by someone who knew nothing whatsoever about AmerIndians and didn’t really care. > [@](#): > > The problems with Janeway had nothing to do with her being female. Of course not. She only qualifies as human because no other species was willing to take her. Janeway’s special brand of unstoppable arrogance doomed thousands or millions to horrible fates and, in then end, actually killed everyone on Voyager at least three times (but all involved were saved via magic). Even without magic, large numbers of her crew were killed, she made numerous enemies, and generally caused as much trouble as possible everywhere she went. Then she was promoted to _Admiral_. Oddly, I find that entirely consistent for Starfleet, an organization dedicated to smug incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/45 "2013-06-19T22:00:25Z")
Although the article is of course utter rubbish, I’m not surprised to see it posted at [RogerEbert.com](http://RogerEbert.com). Ebert was a wonderful writer and film reviewer and I miss his wit and insight, but he was also a politically correct liberal ideologue, and I could see him believing this kind of nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/46 "2013-06-19T22:58:03Z")
> [@choie](#): > > What a goofy article. DS9 had only one white male in its cast of characters: Miles O’Brien. Unless you count Odo, I suppose, but I’m not sure solidified ooze counts as playing a white male. Even if you do count Odo, that ties with _Voyager_ on the white male-ometer. Yet for me, DS9 trumps VOY in every possible way. And the best thing is I didn’t even notice. The characters weren’t outrageous stereotypes like in Voyager. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/47 "2013-06-19T23:16:11Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > …Kes was supposed to be the eye candy, playing sweet and innocent… Don’t forget about Kes being a \*2 yr. old \*when the show started. Yes, it was an interesting aversion to the usual sci-fi rule about aliens having longer lifespans, but I think they strayed 2 far into mayfly territory. Oh having and the whole “Ocampa women can only get pregnant once in their lifetime” doesn’t make a lot of sense; especially when the only Ocampa birth we ever saw onscreen was Kes’s a and she was a singleton. > [@Smapti](#): > > …I disliked it because it utterly refused to acknowledge its own premise. The Voyager is the only Federation ship in a quadrant with no safe harbor and hostile forces everywhere, and yet, except for a handful of references to “replicator rations” (which doesn’t jibe with how replicators even work in the ST universe… The replicator rations weren’t too ridiculous (they were a restriction on energy use), but the fact that everyone was constantly running personal programs on the holodeck was. > [@Mijin](#): > > …But there are some episodes that played with that idea. In _Year of Hell_ the ship’s FUBAR almost the whole two-part episode and they have no opportunity to repair anything. > BTW That’s a great episode to watch for those people who claim Voyager was always terrible (Well Part I anyway; Part II kinda went by the numbers in tying things up). Year of Hell was originally conceived as a season-long arc, but ended up getting condensed to a 2-parter (that technically took place in an alternate timeline). > [@Smapti](#): > > …and drinking their own recycled urine. If you really think about it they spent the entire show drinking their own recycled urine (& _eating_ their recycled faeces). > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > The Doctor is my all time favourite Trek character. He single-handedly made the show watchable. His dialogue, at least, was well written, even if the rest stank. True, though I was annoyed he defaulted to heterosexual when he decided to explore relationships. I mean he was an asexual computer program who had to have made a conscious choice to program a sexual orientation for himself. But it’s _Star Trek_, alternative lifestyles are only allowed in alternate universes (& even then only by villains). > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > …Then she was promoted to _Admiral_. > > Oddly, I find that entirely consistent for Starfleet, an organization dedicated to smug incompetence. To be fair she was promoted into a desk job at Starfleet HQ, and that was only after bringing a shitload of advanced Borg technology back to the Alpha Quadrant for reverse engineering. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/48 "2013-06-20T00:17:31Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > 1. I believe the correct expression is Half Human/ Half Vulcan. Black is not a species > 2. Tuvok was a black vulcan, not half anything > > …and we’re the racist ones apparently 😕 There’s such thing as a “Black Vulcan”? Then how come all the Vulcans we ever saw before him were the same color? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/49 "2013-06-20T01:19:09Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > _DS9_, OTOH, was excellent, and I say that while hating the actor who played Sisko. What’s wrong with Avery Brooks? I thought he was terrific as Sisko! Don’t tell me you think he’s only got one mood: “rage”? I thought he portrayal of a captain at the edge of Federation territory next to a wormhole leading to across the galaxy was nuanced, emotional, deep, and totally original. They couldn’t have put Patrick Stewart in that role ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/50 "2013-06-20T02:52:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 There’s such thing as a “Black Vulcan”? Then how come all the Vulcans we ever saw before him were the same color? And Romulans, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/51 "2013-06-20T03:31:29Z")
> [@choie](#): > > What a goofy article. DS9 had only one white male in its cast of characters: Miles O’Brien. Unless you count Odo, I suppose, but I’m not sure solidified ooze counts as playing a white male. Even if you do count Odo, that ties with _Voyager_ on the white male-ometer. Yet for me, DS9 trumps VOY in every possible way. I was very pleased by the inclusion of Doctor Bashir, but I’m not sure how many people realized he was of Muslim descent. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/52 "2013-06-20T03:48:51Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I was very pleased by the inclusion of Doctor Bashir, but I’m not sure how many people realized he was of Muslim descent. He was genetically engineered, too! 🆒 > **[Julian Bashir](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Julian_Bashir)** > > Julian Subatoi Bashir was a 24th century Human Starfleet officer who served as chief medical officer of the Federation space station Deep Space 9. Julian Bashir was born in late 2341, the only child of Richard and Amsha Bashir. As a child, he was... ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/53 "2013-06-20T04:18:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 There’s such thing as a “Black Vulcan”? Then how come all the Vulcans we ever saw before him were the same color? Vulcan has race issues too. Prejudice means it is very difficult for blacks (and non-hawt women) to be accepted by High Command. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > What’s wrong with Avery Brooks? I thought he was terrific as Sisko! Don’t tell me you think he’s only got one mood: “rage”? I thought he portrayal of a captain at the edge of Federation territory next to a wormhole leading to across the galaxy was nuanced, emotional, deep, and totally original. I thought he was a bit pompous and hammy. If I were a crewman on the base I’d probably think he was rehearsing for Othello. All of the time. …which is ironic considering my favourite captain is Picard. But Picard, while being a thesp, can do understatement IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/54 "2013-06-20T20:34:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 There’s such thing as a “Black Vulcan”? Then how come all the Vulcans we ever saw before him were the same color? Well, that’s certainly a valid observation, but when Tuvok was presented, he was never presented as half human. He was 100% Vulcan, and articles at the time discussed this. The observation was “Yeah, there are Black Vulcans, so what?” Sure, it was out of nowhere and didn’t tie in to any other Vulcan (or Romulan) portrayal, but that’s what the show runners said. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/55 "2013-06-20T22:29:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 There’s such thing as a “Black Vulcan”? He was invented for a cartoon show, and not part of official DC canon. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/56 "2013-06-21T03:07:38Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > In Southern Oregon (which is kind of like a bastard child of the south), it’s youngin’ 😃 Seems more like a verb that way. Tell them to stop it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/57 "2013-06-21T03:57:47Z")
Did anyone here watch the show _Last Resort_? It was a lot of what Voyager should have been: a divided crew stranded far from home in an increasingly desperate situation. It was just as silly as Voyager ever was but did the whole stranded bit much better. Regarding black Vulcans, I am sure they can be seen in the background in ST:IV or ST:VI and there was a black Romulan captain in TNG season 6 or 7. It makes sense that a desert planet would have darker-skinned people on it. (FWIW, _Firefly_ had a similar problem in which the Chinese were supposed to be fully half of the dominant galactic power but we never saw a single Chinese character anywhere.) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/58 "2013-06-21T06:14:05Z")
Hmm… never realized there was so much Janeway hatred out there. In the gay sci-fi fandom community she is insanely popular. I really like her a lot. Some of the episodes were written terribly for her, it’s true. But most of the time I thought she really kicked ass and was a fantastic captain. I kind of feel she was the best of Picard and Kirk. I still prefer Picard, however. Stewart’s acting chops are almost 2nd to none. Mulgrew was good though, I disagree she couldn’t act her way out of a paper bag. But honestly, I’ve seen every episode of TNG and every episode of VOY, and both shows had a lot of crappy episodes. TNG just had a much better crew. VOY had a pretty forgettable and downright unlikable crew, except for a few characters, and a lot of wasted potential which has been pointed out. Overall, the best episodes of each series are pretty good, with TNG beating out VOY pretty easily. But the worst epsiodes of each series, TNG takes the cake easily for me. VOY rarely ever reached the insipid depths of the terribleness that TNG did. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/59 "2013-06-21T06:41:21Z")
Space is big. Really, really big. So big that coming across a '37 pickup truck — in the Delta Quadrant for your deity of choice’s sake — that started after floating around in nothingness for hundreds of years, with its gas, oil, battery and water intact, along with an aviatrix — and not just _any_ aviatrix but _that_ aviatrix — well, I never. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/60 "2013-06-21T06:51:16Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > It makes sense that a desert planet would have darker-skinned people on it. Deserts, yes; not rain forest. It would be far more logical for them to resemble Middle Easterners than Sub-Saharan Africans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343.md?page=4)