# Didn't like Voyager? You would have if it had more white males! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 19, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343 "2013-06-19T06:48:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/121 "2013-06-27T04:38:29Z")
we’ve killed about 10 brown recluses since our home was sprayed 2 weeks ago. I am so freaked out I can’t sleep. ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/122 "2013-06-27T04:57:20Z")
crap wrong thread. sorry ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/123 "2013-06-27T04:57:39Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Wasn’t the Wildman girl born onboard? > > [uh-Yep, more or less …](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Naomi_Wildman) She was, but Miral Paris was the first (and only) baby both born _and conceived_ on ship. And that was just before they arrived home. (“One,” although conceived on the ship, was “born” not as a baby, but as a full grown drone. The birth announcement in the Captain’s log in one episode was on a different ship.) And I’m not sure why the article tries to sell Naomi as a duplicate. It was like with Thomas Riker: either version could have been the duplicate. That was kinda the point of the episode–neither duplicate of Voyager could decide which one needed to die. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/124 "2013-06-27T12:06:27Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > we’ve killed about 10 brown recluses since our home was sprayed 2 weeks ago. I am so freaked out I can’t sleep. remember when Barclay turned into a spider? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/125 "2013-06-27T12:46:48Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > remember when Barclay turned into a spider? Literally, or did he just have a holodeck program where Troi bit his head off during sex? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/126 "2013-06-27T12:47:30Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > remember when Barclay turned into a spider? Brown recluses are creepy enough; no need to go bringing up _Barclay_. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/127 "2013-06-27T12:52:36Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Literally, or did he just have a holodeck program where Troi bit his head off during sex? Literally, sort of. The repressed spider DNA that we all have in our cells was activated for him. Other crew members expressed diferent ancestrial traits. (It hurts to write that.) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/128 "2013-06-27T14:38:40Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > The repressed spider DNA that we all have in our cells was activated for him. Correction: the repressed spider DNA that _some idiot screenwriter who doesn’t know the first thing about zoology, biology, or evolution_ imagines that we have in our cells was activated for him _even though vertebrates are not descended from arthropods._ That one makes me real stabby. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/129 "2013-06-27T14:55:50Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Correction: the repressed spider DNA that _some idiot screenwriter who doesn’t know the first thing about zoology, biology, or evolution_ imagines that we have in our cells was activated for him _even though vertebrates are not descended from arthropods._ > > That one makes me real stabby. Blame it on that lady in The Chase (TNG). I became a spider once. Never looked back… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/130 "2013-06-27T20:53:16Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Vulcans _might_ have evolved other defense mechanisms if they had turned out closer to reptilian, avian, amphibian, icthyne, or something else, but they _didn’t_. _ **They are clearly humanoid.** _ I’m not entirely clear on what effect bipedal locomotion has on skin pigmentation. Can you elaborate on that? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/131 "2013-06-27T22:11:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not entirely clear on what effect bipedal locomotion has on skin pigmentation. Can you elaborate on that? They stand up, so they’re closer to the local sun. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/132 "2013-06-28T05:21:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not entirely clear on what effect bipedal locomotion has on skin pigmentation. Can you elaborate on that? Why are you assuming there’s a direct link between the two? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/133 "2013-06-28T09:04:18Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Why are you assuming there’s a direct link between the two? I’m not assuming a link. I’m questioning your assertion that there is a link. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/134 "2013-06-28T11:24:05Z")
I tried clicking on the link… ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/135 "2013-06-28T19:16:53Z")
I think the question is, what did you mean by “humanoid”? I mean, that implies to me bipedal with a largely human shape, walking upright. I think that’s why Miller is interpreting your remark to suggest there’s a link between being an upright bipedal and skin pigmentation. You listed options of “reptilian, avian, amphibian, icthyne” (what is that?) and then “humanoid”. What does that even mean? Vulcans are _alien_. Earth categories don’t necessarily apply. (Except when they do, because this is Star Trek.) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/136 "2013-06-28T21:11:18Z")
What I got out of The Chase was that the Old Ones seeded those worlds with life producing stuff to get that planet’s evolution to produce ‘people’ like them (within the limits of that planet’s species’ evolution). So, essentially, ALL life forms on those planets would be related in a very basic way. But, it still allows for Star Trek Evolution to vary according to each system involved. So, even tho Hoo-mahns and Vulcanians are close enough to interbreed (apparently with help), they are not all that much alike in other ways. Copper vs iron blood chemistry, for example. Inner eyelids, telepathy (active for Vulcans, passive for Humans), two hearts (Well, that’s a TimeLord trait), etc… Just because the end result on all those planets is a bipedal, upright, intelligent, curious, mammalian acting species, we should not expect too many other similarities, esp in the small things like skin coloration or forehead ridges. Tho is may be silly, series canon can help solve certain puzzles. Yes, if it aired (except for certain things in ST:V and most of the animated series {note I said MOST! no nitpicks!}), it’s canon. At least, before the reboot. And even this info about Trek canon rules may have been superceded since I last read up on it. Feel free to nitpick series canon. That’s part of the fun of being a Trekker. . ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/137 "2013-06-30T02:46:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not assuming a link. I’m questioning your assertion that there is a link. I never made that assertion. One does not cause the other, obviously. What I said was that it makes sense that evolution tends to follow general laws since there are patterns we can observe on Earth that are repeated again and again. Any organism is shaped primarily by its environment. Given similar environments, its logical to conclude that they will produce life forms that resemble one another, a process called convergence. One example on Earth is the similarity between sharks, icthyosaurs, and cetaceans, all of which evolved in the ocean. Given that all SF humanoids are symmetrical, upright bipeds with stereoscopic vision, the ability for articulate speech, etc., etc., etc., it’s reasonable to assume that they’re products of similar (not necessarily identical) environments. It also makes sense to assume that similar environmental challenges will produce similar defense mechanisms to cope with them. One such adaptation would be darker skin to deal with intense ambient radiation. None of the above can be shown to be even generally true at present, due to our lack of knowledge of planets beyond Earth. They are, however, reasonable assumptions, given our current state of knowledge. Other than the “we’re-closer-to-worms-than-we-are-to-Vulcans-so-your-statements-are-ludicrous” argument, why don’t you come up with some alternative explanations of your own? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/138 "2013-06-30T06:18:06Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Other than the “we’re-closer-to-worms-than-we-are-to-Vulcans-so-your-statements-are-ludicrous” argument, why don’t you come up with some alternative explanations of your own? I was tempted to reply to this misrepresentation of my point. But you’ve already tried this exact same straw man, and I’d just be repeating what I said in [Post #89](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16404286&postcount=89). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/139 "2013-06-30T07:21:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I was tempted to reply to this misrepresentation of my point. But you’ve already tried this exact same straw man, and I’d just be repeating what I said in [Post #89](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16404286&postcount=89). Good! Now we’re spared your straw men. Like talking to a dolphin… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343/140 "2013-06-30T07:24:17Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Good! Now we’re spared your straw men. > > Like talking to a dolphin… What? Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-like-voyager-you-would-have-if-it-had-more-white-males/661343.md?page=8)