# Didn't "the hammer and sickle" on flags go out with the Commies? (2015 MayDay, Moscow) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496 "2016-04-17T19:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/1 "2016-04-17T19:35:36Z")
Here’s a picture which never goes out of style: nukes being shown off in Moscow. [Race for Latest Class of Nuclear Arms Threatens to Revive Cold War - The New York Times](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/science/atom-bomb-nuclear-weapons-hgv-arms-race-russia-china.html?_r=0) It’s not a Soviet flag, true. But what gives? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/2 "2016-04-17T19:46:54Z")
That’s not a May Day celebration, but [Victory Day](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/10/russia) celebrating the defeat of Nazi Germany. As such, they are using historical symbols, including that of the USSR (CCCP in Cyrillic) on the right. From the article: > [@](#): > > Over the past eight years, Vladimir Putin, the president recently turned prime minister, has transformed Russia into an authoritarian state. > > Along the way, he has revived many of the potent symbols of Soviet greatness - the Soviet anthem, the red star, and, yesterday, the 22-metre long inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM), wheeled incongruously past the GUM shopping arcade, and the boutiques of Gucci and Prada. Display of the hammer and sickle is no doubt part of that revival. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/3 "2016-04-17T20:01:54Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/4 "2016-04-17T22:46:36Z")
A large majority of Russians (as well as a majority or plurality of people in most of the other former Eastern Block countries) is nostalgic for the Soviet era and thinks they were better off under communism, is the simple answer. I would guess that using the old Soviet symbols is an attempt to appeal to that sector of the population. [http://russialist.org/russians-increasingly-nostalgic-for-soviet-system-poll-finds/](http://russialist.org/russians-increasingly-nostalgic-for-soviet-system-poll-finds/) > **[Chapter 3. Russia: Public Backs Putin, Crimea’s Secession](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2014/05/08/chapter-3-russia-public-backs-putin-crimeas-secession/)** > > Russian President Vladimir Putin’s handling of the crisis in Ukraine has met with considerable opposition in Western nations and much of the international > **[Russian Faith in \\](https://www.unz.com/akarlin/western-democracy-in-russia/)** > > This will probably be of no surprise to people who follow Russian sentiments, but still worth pointing out that according to the latest polls by Levada - an independent polling agency headed by pro-Western liberals - support for this thing called \\ > **[Hungary: Better Off Under Communism?](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/)** > > A strong majority in Hungary say most people were better off under communism. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/5 "2016-04-17T23:26:54Z")
Back in the first fall of the Soviet Union (Putin is ensuring there will be another), many people brought out their favorite political signs - the Russian Tricolor, the various States which had been suppressed (Ukraine esp.). The saddest were very old people with perfect posters of Stalin as represented in the propaganda - large, strong, resolute. They had kept these in perfect condition all those years. The poor folks were watching their country denounce the ideals of their youth. Maybe the KGB should have snatched them and tortured them. Just for old-time’s sake, ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/6 "2016-04-18T08:53:57Z")
I saw a lot of them in Vietnam this Spring. I assumed they were supposed to be just a general Communist symbol, rather than representing the USSR specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/7 "2016-04-18T11:00:05Z")
Maybe in Russia, the Hammer and Sickle has a similar nostalgic/patriotic/religious emotional value as the Stars and Bars has in the USA? Of course, we have a 150 year head start on them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/8 "2016-04-18T11:34:20Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Maybe in Russia, the Hammer and Sickle has a similar nostalgic/patriotic/religious emotional value as the Stars and Bars has in the USA? Of course, we have a 150 year head start on them. Nitpick: The American national flag is the “Stars and Stripes.” “Stars and Bars” is the first Confederate national flag— > **[Flags of the Confederate States of America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#/media/File%3AFlag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg)** > > The flags of the Confederate States of America have a history of three successive designs during the American Civil War. The flags were known as the "Stars and Bars", used from 1861 to 1863; the "Stainless Banner", used from 1863 to 1865; and the "Blood-Stained Banner", used in 1865 shortly before the Confederacy's dissolution. A rejected national flag design was also used as a battle flag by the Confederate Army and featured in the "Stainless Banner" and "Blood-Stained Banner" designs. Althou... ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/9 "2016-04-18T11:38:45Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Nitpick: The American national flag is the “Stars and Stripes.” > > “Stars and Bars” is the first Confederate national flag— > > [Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#/media/File%3AFlag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg) I’m pretty **Ranger** was refering to the Confederate flag. His post doesn’t make much sense if he meant the US flag. You can’t really be nostalgic for the Stars and Stripes, its still the present flag (albeit with more stars as time goes on). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/10 "2016-04-18T11:47:29Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’m pretty **Ranger** was refering to the Confederate flag. His post doesn’t make much sense if he meant the US flag. You can’t really be nostalgic for the Stars and Stripes, its still the present flag (albeit with more stars as time goes on). I don’t see much nostalgia for the Stars and Bars. Except for the fact that it’s incorporated into the design of a couple of state flags, I don’t see very many people displaying it. So is he referring to the “Southern Cross” flag, commonly just known as the “Confederate Flag”? That seems likely. But “Stars and Bars” is still the wrong name. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/11 "2016-04-18T13:23:37Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I saw a lot of them in Vietnam this Spring. I assumed they were supposed to be just a general Communist symbol, rather than representing the USSR specifically. Well, yes. That’s the point. We had the “reset” because those bad old days were gone. A few lightening bolts on a flag in a German state- sponsored military parade would be worrisome. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/12 "2016-04-18T14:37:27Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Maybe in Russia, the Hammer and Sickle has a similar nostalgic/patriotic/religious emotional value as the Stars and Bars has in the USA? Of course, we have a 150 year head start on them. The Confederate flag is a definite political symbol meant to convey something, not a vague emotional thing. So is the hammer and sickle (although what it means to convey may vary depending on whether one is a communist, a nationalist, or just someone vaguely nostalgic for the past). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/13 "2016-04-18T14:38:36Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Well, yes. That’s the point. We had the “reset” because those bad old days were gone. > > A few lightening bolts on a flag in a German state- sponsored military parade would be worrisome. Well, in that case you should find the opinion polls much more worrisome than the flags, because the flags are telling us nothing the opinion polls haven’t been saying for years. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/14 "2016-04-19T07:11:28Z")
Yes, I meant the Confederate Flag when I said “Stars and Bars”. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/didnt-the-hammer-and-sickle-on-flags-go-out-with-the-commies-2015-mayday-moscow/752496/15 "2016-04-19T13:26:51Z")
Many of China’s older folks also have a lot of nostalgia for the days of Mao. Despite being tough, life was simpler and it is normal to have fond memories from youth. They even have Mao little red book reading sessions for people to take families too.