# Died of old age? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215 "2012-08-11T20:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/1 "2012-08-11T20:47:45Z")
Is it true that it’s illegal for a doctor to list “old age” as the cause of death on the certificate? I _want_ mine to say that! I’m mostly loving getting old. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/2 "2012-08-11T22:10:37Z")
From what I understand, the cause of death will be listed as cardiac arrest if it’s a natural death. Your heart will stop beating causing you to die. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/3 "2012-08-11T22:40:44Z")
My mother was 95 when she died. She was in a nursing home, fell asleep in the middle of lunch, and never woke up. A peaceful and painless way to go. Her death certificate lists “Chronic Congestive Heart Failure” as the cause of death. She had not had any particular heart problems (other than what every 95-year-old has, I suppose) before that incident. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/4 "2012-08-11T22:53:39Z")
[A previous thread on this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=433817). And, from that earlier discussion, I quote a particularly insightful and helpful post: 😉 > [@Me](#): > > . . . as someone who’s cared for hundreds of people who’ve died, I wish old age were still considered a cause of death. > > Most of my hospitalized patients are over age 80, and many are over 90. Sure, they’ve been admitted with pneumonia or heart failure, but the truth is that a lot of them are just plain old. If it wasn’t pneumonia, it would be kidney failure. If it wasn’t heart failure, it would be a stroke. I mean, there’s just so much wrong with them as a result of being old, that something’s gotta give. > > Here’s a typical example - 93 year-old man with advanced dementia, multiple previous strokes, congestive heart failure, Parkinson’s disease, and chronic renal insufficiency (i.e. chronic mild kidney malfunction). He has a fall, gets admitted to hospital, then gets totally delirious, then develops pneumonia, then experiences a worsening of his kidney function, then aspirates his breakfast, then gets worse kidney function, then seems to have had another stroke, then goes into worse heart failure, then gets a urine infection, then gets worse pneumonia, then dies. Not only is it arbitrary to choose a specific cause of death, or label him as dieing from pneumonia, it’s misleading. He died because he was decrepit. He was decrepit because he was old. > > FWIW, the British Medical Journal (BMJ), in its obituaries of British physicians, often lists the cause of death as “old age”. (IOW, physicians writing about the deaths of other physicians, still use the diagnosis of “old age”, presumably because they think it best captures what was going on) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/5 "2012-08-11T22:55:02Z")
I’ve filled out more than a few death certificates in my time, and I’m not aware of any laws saying what I can or can’t put down as a cause of death. I try to make the primary cause of death reflective of the clinical situation at the time. Certainly one could always just put down “cardiac arrest” but that’s not really helpful. So I may put down something like “overwhelming sepsis in the setting of metastatic pancreatic cancer” or “acute cardiac arrest in the setting of severe atherosclerotic coronary artery disease”. Contributory diagnoses may be included too, such as “diabetes mellitus” or “End stage liver disease”. I’ve never put down “old age” but I have seen death certificates that listed “general debility” as the cause of death. That’s my experience, anyway. On edit: What **KarlGauss** said. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/6 "2012-08-12T03:49:50Z")
Could you put “ennui”? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/7 "2012-08-12T04:27:03Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Could you put “ennui”? Me? I’m a long way from ennui. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/8 "2012-08-12T07:59:54Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Me? I’m a long way from ennui. 🙂 How much for an ennui ticket? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/9 "2012-08-12T14:04:15Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > How much for an ennui ticket? I used to be ennui, now I’m on caffeine. (I expect to wee again a little while from now.) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/10 "2012-08-13T01:15:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Could you put “ennui”? Only if the deceased is named Neville. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/11 "2012-08-13T02:11:34Z")
Some time ago, this was the subject of a CarTalk puzzler. I can’t believe I found it. [http://www.cartalk.com/content/bye-bye-bertha](http://www.cartalk.com/content/bye-bye-bertha)? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/12 "2012-08-13T02:24:11Z")
My father’s death was listed as “complications of heart disease”. There was an autopsy, so I called the medical examiner to get more information. I asked if he had a heart attack, and the ME said no, there was no sign of complete blockage of any cardiac arteries, though he did have narrowed arteries. I ask what other complications of heart disease would cause death, and he had no answer, other than he died, and he had heart disease, so that’s what he died of. Very ambiguous and unsatisfying. ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/13 "2012-08-13T03:16:00Z")
I understood that it is illegal to put “cardiac arrest” as a cause of death, since it is involved in 100% of deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/14 "2012-08-13T09:27:12Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > I understood that it is illegal to put “cardiac arrest” as a cause of death, since it is involved in 100% of deaths. Then it should be illegal to NOT put “cardiac arrest” as a cause of death. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/15 "2012-08-13T10:46:31Z")
> [@svd678](#): > > I understood that it is illegal to put “cardiac arrest” as a cause of death, since it is involved in 100% of deaths. I understand it’s illegal to put “I kilt him” as a cause of death, except maybe in some circumstances in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![benbo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@benbo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/benbo1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/16 "2012-08-14T10:40:41Z")
Dr. David Agus, the author of The End of Illness, was on a show on the local public tv station here. He said that pre-50s, ‘old age’ was acceptable. Since then, the m.e. has to list _something_. Cardiac arrest is a symptom not a cause, but I guess better than ‘old age’ to the Powers That Be. ---
**Author:** ![eightysix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@eightysix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eightysix)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/17 "2012-08-14T13:02:31Z")
[thread=649315]Another[/thread] recent thread on similar topic. As a pathologist and medical examiner, I fill out and review many death certificates daily. As far as I know there are, at least in my jurisdiction, no laws stipulating what can and can’t be put on DCs (with a notable exception, as explained in the other thread). While I’ve never put “old age” or one of its equivalents on a DC, I’ve been tempted to do so many times, and I’ve definitely seen it on DCs that I have reviewed plenty of times. I’d say, I see it several times a day out of several hundred DCs (I’m bad at estimating these type of amounts; it’d be interesting to actually run the numbers some day; if/when I do I’ll post the result). As long as the person is in fact “old,” I, and the other pathologists I work with, let that pass as a COD. Maybe we’re derelict in our duty, but if “old age” seemed to fit best by the person who filled out the DC (and, hopfully but not necessarily actually knew the decedent), I’m not going to nit pick second guess him/her. FWIW, there are 3 different aspects to this: 1. The biology (or what my philosophical bias would have me term “reality”); 2. What gets put on the DC by the person filling it out; and 3. What gets coded into vital statistics by the nosologists. One would hope these are all more or less concordant with each other, but there’s no law that stipulates that either. There may very well be a kibosh put on “old age” by the people of 3. (Who really knows what they do?) As said, there is certainly no proviso against it by the people of 2, at least not among those whose DCs I review. And as for 1. well, … ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/18 "2012-08-14T13:08:36Z")
As an ME, would you consider “complications of heart disease” in the absence of any evidence of coronary blockage an acceptable cause of death? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/19 "2012-08-14T13:54:31Z")
**eightysix** , **Qadgop the Mercotan** , **KarlGauss** , or anyone else who might have occasion to fill in the relevant field: Can a 55 year old die of “old age” in your view? How about a 45 year old? What’s the cutoff, below which you wouldn’t even consider “old age” as a possibility? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215/20 "2012-08-14T16:29:57Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **eightysix** , **Qadgop the Mercotan** , **KarlGauss** , or anyone else who might have occasion to fill in the relevant field: Can a 55 year old die of “old age” in your view? How about a 45 year old? What’s the cutoff, below which you wouldn’t even consider “old age” as a possibility? Now that’s just silly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/died-of-old-age/631215.md?page=2)