# Dieting with Cheese **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 5, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566 "2006-01-05T13:59:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/1 "2006-01-05T13:59:10Z")
There’s probably a good and simple answer to this, but it’s been bugging me for a while. Someone please remedy my ignorance. I’ve been getting the message for some time now that cheese isn’t the greatest food. Americans eat far too much of it (and they eat a particularly bad variety). They’re faulted for getting not merely hamburgers at fast foos joints, but _cheese_burgers, which are apparently far worse. Jay Leno often made fun of cheese eating in his Tonight Show monologues, implying that it leads to obesity. Cheese may contain calcium and other good stuff, but it’s basically all fat, and for adults, at least, the bad features outweigh (har!) the good. But back in the 1960s, it seemed one of the major elements of diets was _cottage cheese_, served on a lettuce leaf and garnished with fruit. This seems to be makingh a comeback. But it’s _cheese_. It’s al curdled milkfat. t’s the easiest kind of cheese to make, in fact (my chemistry book had detailed instructions). So howcum? How can cottage cheese be good for you and make you lose weight if cheese is bad for you? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/2 "2006-01-05T14:38:17Z")
Dang! I accidentally put this in the wrong forum! Could a Mod move it to GQ? ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/3 "2006-01-05T14:41:24Z")
All cheese is not equal. Cottage cheese is one step away from milk - relatively low in fat, and all the good stuff that milk gets you. That triple-cream brie that I ate over New Year’s is the other side of the spectrum. It’s one teensy tiny mini step away from being pure butter. And oh was it ever good! Like everything, though, take what you read with a grain of salt; cheese is actually a fairly healthy food in small doses. Strong in taste and low in calories and fat if you use small portions. So don’t pig out and eat a quarter pound of gouda in one sitting, but a quarter ounce of parmesan on top of your eggs is hardly a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/4 "2006-01-05T14:42:51Z")
Americans eat 30 pounds of cheese per year. Cite: [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/22/national/main645030.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/22/national/main645030.shtml) 1.3 ounces a day does not sound so extreme to me (, considering that so many people are lactose intolerant, and most other substitutes like yogurt are sold in bastardized forms that have got to be 60% added sugar. As for cottage cheese… according to [http://www.nutritiondata.com](http://www.nutritiondata.com), 1 ounce of cottage cheese made with 1% milkfat is 20 calories per ounce. For comparison most cheeses run in the 90-120 calories per ounce range. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/5 "2006-01-05T14:47:13Z")
It’s just the fat content. Cottage cheese is commonly 1% or 4% fat. Other cheeses range up to 40%. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/6 "2006-01-05T14:47:35Z")
Oh, by the way, in a McDonald’s cheeseburger, the bun has more calories than the burger meat and cheese combined. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/7 "2006-01-05T15:46:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Dang! I accidentally put this in the wrong forum! Could a Mod move it to GQ? Off to GQ! ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/8 "2006-01-05T16:23:44Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > Oh, by the way, in a McDonald’s cheeseburger, the bun has more calories than the burger meat and cheese combined. That’s completely untrue. Perhaps you’re confusing calories with carbs. Two large slices of white bread (couldn’t find a bun in the [USDA database](http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)) have 160 calories. A 3 oz hamburger patty has 240 calories and a slice of American cheese has 50 calories. Cottage cheese was popular as a diet food back when Atkins-type diets were popular. (which wasn’t just this last go around, high protein diets have been in and out of style for years) It’s high protein and low fat, compared to both meat and regular cheese. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/9 "2006-01-05T16:24:25Z")
The simplest explaination is water content. Cottage is up to 80% water, most other cheese are 40% or less. Mozzarella can be 50%. There are lots of laws in the States about maximum moisture allowances. The thing to always remember for any food is what a serving is. Cottage is 1/2 cup, cheddar is 1 oz. If you want to cut the maximum fat possible and still eat cheese, look for undressed cottage (ahhh! its nekkid!!) since cottage is made with skim, the fat is in the dressing in most standard cottages. ---
**Author:** ![KP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a9adbd/32.png) [@KP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/10 "2006-01-05T17:06:06Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > Oh, by the way, in a McDonald’s cheeseburger, the bun has more calories than the burger meat and cheese combined. > [@tremorviolet](#): > > That’s completely untrue. Perhaps you’re confusing calories with carbs. > > Two large slices of white bread (couldn’t find a bun in the [USDA database](http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)) have 160 calories. A 3 oz hamburger patty has 240 calories and a slice of American cheese has 50 calories. > > Cottage cheese was popular as a diet food back when Atkins-type diets were popular. (which wasn’t just this last go around, high protein diets have been in and out of style for years) It’s high protein and low fat, compared to both meat and regular cheese. Technically it _is_ untrue, so by an absolutist view of truth, I suppose it must be "completely untrue – but only by one calorie! The bun _is equal_ in calories tothe patty and chese. I’d say that the original claim presents an unexpected and possibly useful fact, while the “rebuttal” is closer to being completely incorrect. to begin: the ‘standard’ McDonalds patty is famously 2 oz, not 3 oz – one look at a McD burger tells you that! The much visibly larger quarter pounder patty is (obviously) 4 oz uncooked weight. Generic nutritional charts are useful, but they should be be the _last_ resort for nutritional info, because they are designed for compact presentation and don’t cite key details of exact portion measurement and cooking technique, preparation, peeling, etc.–virtually giaranteeing some error on each ingredient. The obvious source is the [official data on the McDonalds website](http://app.mcdonalds.com/bagamcmeal?process=item&itemID=3). Or did that not support the desired point? Bun: 150 cal Patty: 100 cal Cheese: 50 cal ketchup: 10 cal everything else: apparently under 1 cal each ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/11 "2006-01-05T17:46:55Z")
Cottage cheese was sometimes the only “diet” food option in restaurants back in the 60’s. Even if it was made with full-fat milk, it would have been lower in calories than the standard sandwich and fries that most restaurants would be offering as the rest of the menu. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/12 "2006-01-05T17:49:11Z")
Huh. A McDonald’s bun used to be 160 calories, for a total of 320 calories. (I’m a walking calorie counter tool) ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/13 "2006-01-05T17:51:42Z")
> [@KP](#): > > Technically it _is_ untrue, so by an absolutist view of truth, I suppose it must be "completely untrue – but only by one calorie! The bun _is equal_ in calories tothe patty and chese. Hmmm, truthfully, I didn’t realize the McDonald’s menu broke it down so completely. Their burgers must be 2 oz _uncooked_ and just over an ounce cooked. That’s pretty small. Oh, well. I figured it was another one of those “all carbs are evil” myths but it’s very close to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/14 "2006-01-05T18:01:43Z")
**KP** , thanks for the backup. You’re completely correct about the generic nutrition charts. If you look at the official US nutrition data for a number of items, it’s … completely wrong, to say the least. For example… croutons… seems quite low, till you figure they’re talking about crouton CUBES… these teeny tiny cubes. Average croutons nowadays are easily 8 times larger! In general, I use the rule of thumb: 150 calories per ounce for dry processed foods (bread, crackers, candy). In years of calorie counting, I’ve found that’s a pretty much consistent count for just about any processed food that has a shelf life, with very little variation. Totally fat-free products might have about 110 calories, and there are surprisingly few full-fat products that also have a shelf-life, and the only one that comes to mind are nuts. Cheeses, meats (even the kind that are processed), and so forth are perishable and therefore have water in them. That’s why an ounce of Brie will have fewer calories per ounce than pretzels, and an ounce of cheesecake will have fewer calories than an ounce of bread. Naturally, the most low-calorie products are berries, vegetables, and the like. I’ve been losing weight by snacking on my delicious invented Sour Gummi Worms recipe: 1 cup boiling water, 4 packages gelatin, 1 tub lemonade Crystal Light… stir and pour into a dinner plate, refrigerate til set, and slice into strips. 60 calories for the whole kit and caboodle, and deliciously sweet-sour! I’ll be experimenting on adding gummi worm sanding using a mixture of Splenda and citric acid. Okay, that was more information than you ever needed. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/15 "2006-01-05T18:17:39Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > I’ve been losing weight by snacking on my delicious invented Sour Gummi Worms recipe: 1 cup boiling water, 4 packages gelatin, 1 tub lemonade Crystal Light… stir and pour into a dinner plate, refrigerate til set, and slice into strips. 60 calories for the whole kit and caboodle, and deliciously sweet-sour! I’ll be experimenting on adding gummi worm sanding using a mixture of Splenda and citric acid. OOOOh! Give me measurements, please. How big is a package of gelatin, and a tub of Crystal Light? I think I have both in bulk… ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/16 "2006-01-05T18:35:32Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > **KP** , thanks for the backup. You’re completely correct about the generic nutrition charts. If you look at the official US nutrition data for a number of items, it’s … completely wrong, to say the least. For example… croutons… seems quite low, till you figure they’re talking about crouton CUBES… these teeny tiny cubes. Average croutons nowadays are easily 8 times larger! The generic charts aren’t wrong, you just have to know what the serving size is. And that’s tough to figure out sometimes. That’s why I was so off. A 3 oz burger seems average to me but I’d forgotten how small McDonalds regular burgers are. If you compare the McDonalds values to the USDA values but use the same serving sizes, you get identical answers. And for good reason, where do you think McDonalds (and other companies) get their numbers? They don’t go out and commission new bomb calorimeter tests; they pull the values from the USDA. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/17 "2006-01-05T18:36:13Z")
I’ll look it up when I get home 🙂 It will be -very- tart but I love tart. If you want a taste a bit closer to regular, use 2 cups boiling water, 8 cups gelatin, one tub Crystal light, and one small (4-serving) package Sugar free jello of your choice. I’ll be experimenting with Splenda and citric acid, flavoring, and other substitutes to produce more of a “gummi”/gel-ly texture, rather than straight gelatin… I believe flour and sugar/corn syrup gives it that slightly sticky consistency. I’ve got to find a place that sells critic acid first 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/18 "2006-01-05T19:48:21Z")
… 8 envelopes gelatin, not 8 cups. _slaps forehead_ ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dieting-with-cheese/338566/19 "2006-01-05T19:50:25Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > They don’t go out and commission new bomb calorimeter tests; they pull the values from the USDA. Cite? Especially given that different recipes and different fat/meat ratios in hamburgers will yield slightly different results? I believe all nutrition labels are required by law to be accurate within a 20% margin of error.