Part two is my favorite bit. I believe Conan Doyle later apologized for it.
I tend to think of a cult as a particular focus of interest within an established religion. Polytheistic religions are all about cults (there’s plenty to choose from) and, strictly speaking, all of the Abrahamic religions probably qualify as “cults.” Within Christianity, you have cults of saints and, very popularly, the cult of the Virgin Mary.
I’m not sure the LDS Church could have every been described as a cult. It’s too unusual.
That, of course, isn’t the popular definition. Near as I can tell, the popular definition is, “any religion I don’t like.”
I really don’t understand why people often call the LDS church a cult. It’s certainly very different from other Christian sects, more different than Judaism is from Islam, perhaps. But speaking as a non-Christian who grew up in Christendom, it doesn’t seem any weirder than many other religions. It meets the “grandparent” test (which is similar to my rule of thumb) and, as noted, scores low on the ABCDEF test. (Which I haven’t seen before, but seems very reasonable.) Basically, it seems to me that Mormons lead ordinary lives and interact normally with the rest of us.
Mormonism is only considered a cult by those who use the term to mean a self-identified Christian sect that they do not believe qualifies as Christian. It’s also used for Jehovah’s Witnesses, Pentecostals, and even–get this–the Roman Catholic Church.
Or, to put it in the tone offered: I don’t think Cecil is a little old church lady.
I know you’ve qualified this in subsequent posts, but the criteria that a large preponderance of adult converts indicates a cult would imply that Unitarian Universalism is a cult. Only about 10% of children raised in Unitarian Universalism end up joining that church as an adult, but I don’t think this indicates any interference in leading a normal life, whatever that is. Rather, Unitarians, unlike many or most other western churches, have historically been extremely adverse to indoctrination. We don’t have a catechism; we have “coming of age” programs that encourage teens to declare and decide upon their own beliefs. This degree of openness doesn’t exactly make for a huge percentage of kids following in their parents’ footsteps. I’d view this as more anti-cult than cultish; your milage may vary.
You may need helpful information, if you are looking at this topic and wondering. A simple definition, a cult tries to control its people a church tries to educate its people. If you are feeling controlled you need to find the closest door and get out of there.
This website is a good resource for religions and cults, very well researched. http://Cults.co.nz
As a former Mormon (including a former missionary), the two very culty things I would offer up about the LDS Church are:
The belief that the living prophet trumps any and all dead prophets. The idea that one man can speak unilaterally on God’s behalf, overruling any ancient scripture or statement by his modern predecessors, is pretty unique among Christian denominations, and much more in line with your classic cults.
The secrecy. Even now, in the LDS Church’s new glasnost era, a person can take the missionary lessons, read the Book of Mormon, pray about it, be converted, and be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church, without ever knowing that the endgame of the Plan of Salvation is to become a god of your own planet and populate it with spirit children. That’s a belief that is completely heretical to 99% of Christian denominations, and the Mormons are not very forthcoming about it.
Huh. I’m not remotely Mormon, spend very little time thinking about it, and I know that (although I think I’ve heard it put in slightly more palatable terms). If this is their big secret, they’re not great about keeping it.
Fair point. Maybe not so much “secretive” as “deliberately not very forthcoming,” though you probably know all about Xenu too.
The Mormon idea of exaltation may be known to you, through South Park, through being on forums like this one, or through sheer cultural osmosis, but the official missionary discussions still use boilerplate Christian terms like “salvation,” “redemption,” “The Celestial Kingdom,” “returning to our Heavenly Father,” and “exaltation,” willfully ignoring that a lot of people hearing those words are not going to picture becoming a god themselves.
I’m forth coming about it. How can we profess to be like God if we aren’t looking to progress like God?
It’s not culty, it’s a logical conclusion (if one believes in a God that is)
I’d say that’s a religion on its way out. Unless you get a lot of converts. I guess that’s a reason to go with the ABCDEF list of 18 cult warnings.
I visited Salt Lake City a couple of years ago, and asked about the painting of a universe with stars and planets on the wall of the room with a giant sculpture of Joseph Smith. I was shocked that the missionary answered that she thought it was just decoration to look pretty. I assumed she was just lying to the tourists, and I didn’t want to make a fuss because I was just a visitor in their home. (And besides, there was a fundamentalist Christian in the tour group intent on making a fuss about lots of other things, and it was obvious that most of the group didn’t appreciate that.) But given how clueless the missionaries I talked to were about other things, even rather obvious ones on a little reflection* that maybe they just had no idea.
Why are all the missionaries in SLC female? Most likely because first, it’s a very safe place to send them, and second because tourists are more likely to choose to interact with attractive young women, I assume.
It’s a logical conclusion only if you believe, as Mormons of course do, that God was once a man as we are, and achieved godhood by progression. However, that’s another belief that, while it’s familiar and comfortable to you, is blasphemous to 99% of other Christian sects, who believe that God was always God since the beginning, and that our best possible endgame is to go back to live with him in heaven.
You may be forthcoming about it, but missionaries don’t have to be. Which, again, means that an investigator can do everything needed in order to achieve full membership in the LDS Church and, unless they do their own internet research or watch South Park, can do so without real knowledge of a central belief.
They’re only predominantly female, there are a few guys. But you’re right; not only are they mostly female, a lot of them are really cute females. Quite a few statuesque blondes from Sweden and Denmark.
Since most of the people they talk to at Temple Square are tourists, they don’t get to actually teach many people all the way through the process to conversion and baptism. What happens more often is that they talk to Temple Square visitors, maybe get them to have a spiritual experience or show interest in learning more, then refer those people to the missionaries in their town in [Iowa/Guadalajara/Spain] for when they get back from vacation.
Many of my friends who served missions in the United States (I served in Ecuador, and not many people from Ecuador visited Temple Square unless they were already Mormon) found those Temple Square sister missionary referrals to be of laughably low quality. Inevitably, they’d visit the person, who would say, “Yeah, I was just being nice because Sister Ahlstrom [was hot/was nice/seemed desperate]. I’m…not really interested in talking about God to two zit-faced 19 year old boys.” And thus Temple Square became “Pressure Square” in missionary parlance.
I think we may be getting a little far afield from the original question. Cults can be identified by the amount of CONTROL they exert over their members.
Mormonism is certainly not a cult, but it does exert a fair amount of control, much more than many realize. I would say that Mormonism scores poorly on the cult scorecard in three main areas: information control, financial control, and time control.
Members are constantly reminded not to read outside sources about Mormonism. They are free to obtain PhDs, have friends of all faiths, but don’t you dare read something written by a non-Mormon about Joseph Smith (unless it’s pre-screened and adulatory). This is weakening in the age of Internet, but it is still pernicious. The second kind of information control is keeping new members from knowing all the ugly bits until they are fully invested. I converted many people to Mormonism, none of whom had heard of polygamy. That was to learn about later, after they were fully enmeshed.
Mormons must pay 10% of their income to be fully participating members of the church. No pay equals no jobs at church, no status. You might as well be a visitor. If you don’t pay, you can’t go to the temple, you can’t participate in any of the rituals. This cannot be overstated. 10% or you’re not a member in good standing.
Finally, all members are given jobs to do in the congregation, many of them taking up huge number of hours every single week. Plus, there are three hours of church on Sunday and at least one extra activity for each age group/gender group during the week. It is entirely possible to have all your time sucked into Mormon congregation busywork.
Are these methods of control the sign of a cult? Absolutely not, but they are coercive and should be minimized, in my opinion.
There’s no jobs at church anyway, it’s strictly voluntary.
I am not a full tithe payer, but I have my volunteer calling as a chorister and cub scout leader, because I told the bishop about our financial problems and we’ve worked out a solution.
wether someone believes Mormons are a cult or not, my church is super supportive. I am sorry for those who join or are born into the LDS church who don’t have that support. That is the fault of the members who don’t use their faith to help others, but their own biases.
Again, not a cult because members are allowed to make mistakes and still be members.
I believe Conan Doyle later apologized for it.