# Difference between "Aymen" and "Ahmen" pronunciation of Amen **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991 "2009-03-19T04:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/1 "2009-03-19T04:29:00Z")
In Season 2, Episode 6 of Carnivale (yes, two threads spawned by one episode) Brother Justin tells his congregation: “Hallelujah, Ah-men.” They all repeat, “Ah-men.” He then says, “Ay-men, brothers and sisters.” Why the difference in pronunciation? Does it mean something different? His “tone” was also different when he said it each way. Or… was it a mistake? And if so, on who’s part? Writer, or actor? (If it was actor, I assume the director and editors were all asleep…) Edit: He’s a methodist minister, if that makes a difference. And the show is based in 1934. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/2 "2009-03-19T05:04:07Z")
FWIW it seems to me that ah-men is used in hymns, so singing, whereas a-men is spoken (and, even more tentatively, that way by Americans only). ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/3 "2009-03-19T05:20:55Z")
I don’t know the program at all, but I’d suggest that there are a couple of distinctions between the two pronunciations. British English (and Australian too) favours Ah-men. American usage, from what I’ve heard, tends towards Ay-men. Additionally, Ah-men is linked with a more traditional liturgical usage, and especially so with hymns, as \*\*Askance \*\*notes. Ay-men suggests the more evangelical, revivalist forms of Christianity. Hence the different tone and the addition of “brothers and sisters”. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/4 "2009-03-19T05:24:29Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > FWIW it seems to me that ah-men is used in hymns, so singing, whereas a-men is spoken (and, even more tentatively, that way by Americans only). AY-MEN is used to indicate strong agreement with a statement. “Trust in the Lord.” “Ay-men!” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/5 "2009-03-19T05:25:36Z")
I always thought “Ay-men” was a more Southern-style inflection, like how people say “IN-surance” instead of “in-SURANCE”. Growing up in the Jewish religion, I can also distinctly remember a third variation: Ah-main. I don’t know if this is just the Hebrew pronunciation of the word, or what. But it’s distinct from the other two. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/6 "2009-03-19T05:33:36Z")
The Hebrew pronunciation is “Ah-MEN”, stressing the second vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/7 "2009-03-19T05:34:45Z")
Well, then they were fucking it up, I guess. But I definitely remember ‘Ah-Main.’ As in, the state of Maine. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/8 "2009-03-19T05:47:53Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Well, then they were fucking it up, I guess. But I definitely remember ‘Ah-Main.’ As in, the state of Maine. Yes, that’s the (Sephardic) Hebrew pronunciation; the Ashkenazic pronunciation is “aw-main.” ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/9 "2009-03-19T07:03:33Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Well, then they were fucking it up, I guess. But I definitely remember ‘Ah-Main.’ As in, the state of Maine. Yes, that is how I’ve heard it pronounced at Jewish services as well. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/10 "2009-03-19T13:12:49Z")
For additional information, his character is played by Clancy Brown, who appears meticulous in his acting. The character is from Russia, but moved to the U.S. at age 6, so no longer has an accent, and doesn’t use any Russian slang at all (except to occasionally call his sister by her given name). He has lived in California (San Bernardino) almost all his life. I think panache45 nailed it. > [@](#): > > AY-MEN is used to indicate strong agreement with a statement. > > “Trust in the Lord.” > “Ay-men!” The first part must have been the ending of a hymn or some written statement, and the second part was him agreeing with the sentiment. That makes sense given the context. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/11 "2009-03-19T13:27:31Z")
Wisconsin - There is no difference other than the speakers normal pronunciation of the word a. Around here people switch between the two, and regardless of you normal pronunciation they repeat it the way the minister just pronounced it. When they want to use it in a a song using the the ah sound lets you drag it out over several notes easier so it gets used more. This includes when the the minister and congregation intone their responses during the service. The use of the eh is almost exclusive to purely spoken text, because it doesn’t work as well in a musical sense. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/12 "2009-03-19T14:58:45Z")
This seems to be analogous to the different pronunciations for “the”: “the” (_thuh_) and “the” (_thee_). I use both pronunciations. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/13 "2009-03-19T16:00:15Z")
In the United Church, we always said “ah-men.” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/14 "2009-03-19T16:13:34Z")
> [@robby](#): > > This seems to be analogous to the different pronunciations for “the”: “the” (_thuh_) and “the” (_thee_). > > I use both pronunciations. Well, in that case, it depends on what word the “the” is preceding. You would say, “thee elephant.” “Thee astronaut.” “Thee olive.” Using the “thuh” form just sounds clunky, if it’s before a word starting with a vowel. You would say, “thuh mirror,” “thuh shotgun,” “thuh flashlight,” “thuh watermelon.” I guess it’s kind of analogous to “a” and “an.” “A” comes before worst starting with consonants, like “a washing mashine” or “a toothbrush.” “an” comes before words starting with vowels, like “an elephant” or “an operator.” In this case, “thee” would be the equivalent of “an,” and “thuh” would be the equivalent of “a.” But…now I have no idea how this ties into “Ay-men” versus “Ah-men.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/15 "2009-03-19T16:36:00Z")
> [@robby](#): > > This seems to be analogous to the different pronunciations for “the”: “the” (_thuh_) and “the” (_thee_). Yes, exactly. The article “a” is the same. Unstressed / ordinary: pronounced uh (a dog, a fish, a cow, amen). Stressed / emphatic: ay (A dog, A fish, A cow, a-men). Amen is usually pronounced with the second syllable stressed, so it’s only when you stress the first syllable that you get ay-men. Some Southern dialects stress the initial syllable (po-lice, in-surance, um-brella) where other Americans don’t, and I’d guess they also say ay-men as a matter of course. edited to respond to **Argent Towers** : You’re correct that “the” is pronounced “thee” before vowels, but that’s just a side effect of the phonology. Articles don’t normally carry stress, so they get the schwa pronunciation unless something prevents it: either slowed-down speech, or a phonological context such as a following vowel (which we can’t do with a / an because “an” is the original), or emphatic speech. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/16 "2009-03-19T20:02:35Z")
I was coming into post that when I was growing up as a Roman Catholic, and we said the Mass in Latin, that it was always pronounced “ah-men” so the people who pronounce it that way probably had some lingering influence (having taken Latin, being Catholic, or growing up in traditionally Catholic area, for instance.) > [@matt\_mcl](#): > > In the United Church, we always said “ah-men.” But then Matt came in and spoiled that argument. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-aymen-and-ahmen-pronunciation-of-amen/489991/17 "2009-03-19T21:07:38Z")
It’s not just how his character was brought up to say it. He says it both ways within seconds of each other. I was thinking that there was some contextual meaning (such as, the first time was part of a reading, and the second time was in agreement of that reading), or perhaps there was a deeper religious meaning that went by me. I think, based on most people’s responses, that it’s the contextual meaning, not the deeper religious meaning.