# Difference between "good political correctness" and "bad political correctness" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 1, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825 "2020-06-01T01:36:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/21 "2020-06-01T14:39:49Z")
> [@bump](#): > > To me, good PC is the actions and results that happen when someone is referred to by the labels that they choose. I.e. not calling the disabled handicapped, or using the term African American instead of Negroes. > > Bad PC is when the basic concept above is used beyond simple civility, and is taken to absurd lengths, and unaware/unsuspecting, or just skeptical people are then castigated for not being on board. For example, that article about using the words “genius”, “brilliant”, etc… is a perfect example of something that’s extreme, and castigating anyone for using the word “brilliant” to describe someone is patently stupid. People need to have a bit thicker skin if a list of historical male academics causes them issues- historically men were the ones who did that stuff. It wasn’t fair, but it’s the way it was, and no amount of PC sugarcoating and mollycoddling is going to change that. Same for calling someone a genius or referring to their brilliance. 1. In reality, civility is never simple. 2. Telling people who have endured centuries of discrimination to have thicker skin can be a tad irritating at times. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/22 "2020-06-01T15:38:46Z")
Another word for “political correctness” is “manners”. Which conservatives will all claim to have and support. But calling a woman a man against her explicit wishes is bad manners. Calling a black man by a name that used to precede horrific lynchings is bad manners. Sharing rape jokes or pictures of bloody, maimed bodies to your social media page without a warning is bad manners. Open carrying rifles at the ready among peaceful crowds for shock value is bad manners. Calling your political opponents anti-American, traitors, or just snowflakes demanding safe spaces is bad manners. Making fun of people you offended because they were offended and then purposely offending them further is bad manners. I could go on (and on, and on). But I’m sure you get my point. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/23 "2020-06-01T15:58:32Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > 1. In reality, civility is never simple. > 2. Telling people who have endured centuries of discrimination to have thicker skin can be a tad irritating at times. Sure, but claiming that the use of the words “genius” and “brilliance” is gender related is an enormous stretch IMO, and \*most \*people are not going to get their panties in a wad about it. That’s where PC runs amok; when the majority of society has an accepted usage for a word or term and there’s no overall aggravation about it, and some tiny minority decides that \*THEY \*are aggravated about it, and demands that everyone else change. I mean, have you EVER heard anything about “genius” or “brilliance” or anything like that being problematic in real life outside of academic nonsense like in that article? The vast majority of people don’t care and probably would think it’s as stupid as I do. Only a tiny, tiny minority of people have decided that it’s an issue- why is that OUR problem? There’s no ill intent behind the common usage, and there’s no huge groundswell of societal support for abolishing the use of “genius” because it’s sexist. It’s about as ridiculous as me getting all het up about people saying that hairy backs on men are unattractive, and saying that’s sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/24 "2020-06-01T16:22:00Z")
Also, **Velocity** , even if you were right about everything in your OP (You’re not even close), well . . . life isn’t and never has been fair, OK? People have _always_ been the victims of overzealous attention to the prevailing winds. People have _always_ been subject to overly strict interpretation of rules (and before you complain too much about that, try doing a stint in the Army and then come back and tell us how strictly regulations are interpreted in civilian life). Also, the people on the receiving end of the backlash that you described weren’t imprisoned. They weren’t fined, or in any way legally sanctioned. They lost their jobs–and not even permanently in some cases. Do I feel a bit of sympathy for the guy who said the word “niggardly,” or the security guard who used the N-word in an entirely understandable context? Yes, I do. I don’t think those were righteous firings, but **Velocity** , this kind of thing happens all the time, certainly not just with regard to political correctness. People lose their jobs every day for all sorts of reasons that don’t have anything to do with something they did wrong. There’s a whole government/civilian infrastructure in place to get them into new jobs. You can’t complain that the world isn’t fair, because the world has _never_ been fair. Situations like the ones you describe in the OP are unavoidable–and probably quite a bit rarer than what the conservative news outlets would have you believe. Once again, as has already been pointed out in that thread, you should probably put down the grains of salt taken with the examples you provided and just go ahead and pick up the whole salt lick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/25 "2020-06-01T18:53:10Z")
Look, with 300 million people in this country someone is going to say something stupid every second of every day. With nearly everyone on social media that stupid thing is likely to get posted. Which means that instead of everyone ignoring that stupid thing, people wishing to drive traffic to their sites will try to make it a big deal. The entire internet is just like a copy of National Enquirer these days. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/26 "2020-06-01T18:57:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I mean, have you EVER heard anything about “genius” or “brilliance” or anything like that being problematic in real life outside of academic nonsense like in that article? The vast majority of people don’t care and probably would think it’s as stupid as I do. Only a tiny, tiny minority of people have decided that it’s an issue- why is that OUR problem? There’s no ill intent behind the common usage, and there’s no huge groundswell of societal support for abolishing the use of “genius” because it’s sexist. How many people do you think subscribe to the notion that “genius” or “brilliance” are problematic? Do you think that number is more or less than the number of people who think Bigfoot and ghosts are real? If you think it is less, then it’s not something to worry about. If you think it is more, then provide some evidence that that many people believe those words are problematic. Not everything that everyone says on Twitter is worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/27 "2020-06-01T19:24:58Z")
I think the biggest difference is that there are literally millions of people who will say hateful or insensitive things, including the President and many of his followers, and think it’s OK because they shouldn’t have to be “politically incorrect” and they’re just “telling it like it is”. This seems to be a problem! On the other hand, you have a handful of examples of people saying stupid things (or extreme things to make a point) that you’ve gathered from the last dozen years or something. This seems to be easily ignored. How did you even find that genius thing? I had to search pretty hard to find another reference to it, other than your link to “Press Trust of India”. Do you subscribe to “The Daily Fake Outrage” or something? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/28 "2020-06-01T19:32:50Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I think the biggest difference is that there are literally millions of people who will say hateful or insensitive things, including the President and many of his followers, and think it’s OK because they shouldn’t have to be “politically incorrect” and they’re just “telling it like it is”. This seems to be a problem Yes, as I noted in the OP, there is a minority of people who oppose Good PC, which is why I only put 70% or so as the figure solidly in favor of good PC. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/29 "2020-06-01T19:47:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Look, with 300 million people in this country someone is going to say something stupid every second of every day. With nearly everyone on social media that stupid thing is likely to get posted. Which means that instead of everyone ignoring that stupid thing, people wishing to drive traffic to their sites will try to make it a big deal. > The entire internet is just like a copy of National Enquirer these days. That’s kind of my point though. Even though bad PC isn’t all that common, it gets a disproportionate amount of attention. Most people who claim that they “oppose political correctness” have heard or read of at least one example of outlandish bad PC. And that is what they are thinking of when they say they object to PC - they are thinking bad PC, not good PC. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/30 "2020-06-01T19:50:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, as I noted in the OP, there is a minority of people who oppose Good PC, which is why I only put 70% or so as the figure solidly in favor of good PC. My point was that “bad PC” can basically be ignored, since it’s so rare. It’s not even really a thing, except to get right wingers up in arms about PC Gone Wild, and then some subset of them use that vanishingly rare thing as an excuse to call black people “niggers”, because they’re telling it like it is. Your OP seems to imply that there’s some equivalence, or that they are both things of consequence, but as I said, it’s perfectly fine to ignore the occasional boneheaded statement by someone who says that we shouldn’t use “genius” for some idiotic reason. On the other hand, we shouldn’t ignore the President calling Hispanics criminals or the many other disgusting things he’s called women and minorities, or Rosanne calling Michelle Obama an ape or whatever she did, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/31 "2020-06-01T19:51:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Most people who claim that they “oppose political correctness” have heard or read of at least one example of outlandish bad PC. And that is what they are thinking of when they say they object to PC - they are thinking bad PC, not good PC. I’m pretty sure that most people who claim that they “oppose political correctness” mean that they want to say whatever racist, sexist things they want to say without anyone criticizing them for it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/32 "2020-06-01T19:52:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That’s kind of my point though. Even though bad PC isn’t all that common, it gets a disproportionate amount of attention. Most people who claim that they “oppose political correctness” have heard or read of at least one example of outlandish bad PC. And that is what they are thinking of when they say they object to PC - they are thinking bad PC, not good PC. You’re giving it that disproportionate attention in this very thread! Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/33 "2020-06-01T20:25:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m pretty sure that most people who claim that they “oppose political correctness” mean that they want to say whatever racist, sexist things they want to say without anyone criticizing them for it. **80 percent** of Americans say they oppose political correctness. That is an immense percentage. > **[Americans Strongly Dislike PC Culture](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/)** > > Youth isn’t a good proxy for support of political correctness, and race isn’t either. Sure, one could argue that a significant chunk of that is Trump voters who want to be offensive for offenses sake, but you don’t get to 80 percent with just the Trump vote alone. Such a high percentage indicates that many centrist and liberal Americans oppose PC as well. Which in turn suggests that many think of PC in terms of Bad PC, not Good PC. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/34 "2020-06-01T20:31:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > **80 percent** of Americans say they oppose political correctness. That is an immense percentage. > > [Large Majorities Dislike Political Correctness - The Atlantic](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/572581/) > > Sure, one could argue that a significant chunk of that is Trump voters who want to be offensive for offenses sake, but you don’t get to 80 percent with just the Trump vote alone. Such a high percentage indicates that many centrist and liberal Americans oppose PC as well. Which in turn suggests that many think of PC in terms of Bad PC, not Good PC. That’s fair and thanks for the link. I did notice this though: “But since the survey question did not define political correctness for respondents, we cannot be sure what, exactly, the 80 percent of Americans who regard it as a problem have in mind” Don’t you think a survey that asked people if they were for or against something should define what that something is? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/35 "2020-06-01T20:42:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > That’s fair and thanks for the link. I did notice this though: “But since the survey question did not define political correctness for respondents, we cannot be sure what, exactly, the 80 percent of Americans who regard it as a problem have in mind” > > Don’t you think a survey that asked people if they were for or against something should define what that something is? Sure - but the very fact that 80% of Americans object to an undefined “PC” suggests that they don’t think of PC as merely being common courtesy, civility and respect (we haven’t become that rude of a nation yet.) It indicates that their preconceived notion of “PC” is that of something bad or extreme. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/36 "2020-06-01T21:14:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Sure - but the very fact that 80% of Americans object to an undefined “PC” suggests that they don’t think of PC as merely being common courtesy, civility and respect (we haven’t become that rude of a nation yet.) It indicates that their preconceived notion of “PC” is that of something bad or extreme. Perhaps. An interesting study would be to then define what PC and ask the same people the same question using the definition of “PC” without using the term “PC”. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/37 "2020-06-01T21:37:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps. An interesting study would be to then define what PC and ask the same people the same question using the definition of “PC” without using the term “PC”. ‘Is it OK to call black people “niggers”, Chinese people “chinks”, and all women “sluts” or “bitches”?’ ‘Is it OK to make fun of people with physical disabilities?’ ‘Is it OK to compare black people to monkeys?’ ‘Is it OK to refer to Hispanics as “wetbacks” and say that they are lazy or criminal in general?’ I bet you wouldn’t get 80% of people saying those things are OK. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/38 "2020-06-01T22:32:31Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > ‘Is it OK to call black people “niggers”, Chinese people “chinks”, and all women “sluts” or “bitches”?’ > > ‘Is it OK to make fun of people with physical disabilities?’ > > ‘Is it OK to compare black people to monkeys?’ > > ‘Is it OK to refer to Hispanics as “wetbacks” and say that they are lazy or criminal in general?’ > > I bet you wouldn’t get 80% of people saying those things are OK. Sure, but again, that’s the very thread question/hypothesis - most people would probably be in favor of Good PC (as you phrase it above.) But most people do not currently perceive “political correctness” as Good PC - they see the term as Bad PC, hence the 80% opposition to it. Which is exactly the problem that arises when society muddled everything together and doesn’t delineate PC into two clear separate categories of good vs. bad. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/39 "2020-06-01T22:43:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Sure, but again, that’s the very thread question/hypothesis - most people would probably be in favor of Good PC (as you phrase it above.) But most people do not currently perceive “political correctness” as Good PC - they see the term as Bad PC, hence the 80% opposition to it. Which is exactly the problem that arises when society muddled everything together and doesn’t delineate PC into two clear separate categories of good vs. bad. That’s because bigots and other throwbacks have purposely muddled the difference. “OMG, she said we can’t say genius anymore. Talk about your politicallyl correct harpy! Anyway, did you hear that joke about the \, the \, and the \? Well, \” “Uh, that’s not funny, that’s racist.” “Jeez, I’m just telling it like it is. You’re just like that person who says we can’t say genius!” ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825/40 "2020-06-01T22:46:52Z")
Until the OP owns up to the multiple (intentionally) misleading claims they made in the first post, I don’t see how much of a conversation can take place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-good-political-correctness-and-bad-political-correctness/854825.md?page=3)