# Difference between Grizzly and Brown bears **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765 "2024-02-19T12:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/1 "2024-02-19T12:55:58Z")
I know they are the same species, and I’ve seen where grizzlies are considered a subspecies of brown bear. The main difference appears to be based on location…Brown bears are coastal, eat a salmon rich diet and are bigger. Grizzlies are inland, eat more plants and are smaller. My question is…Are these two populations really genetically distinct or are they separated only by convention of where they live? In other words, can we take a grizzly, plop him in a coastal environment and watch him grow into a brown bear and not be able to tell the difference from other brown bears? Or are they truly separated by clear genetic markers with no blur between the two groups? Are they really two different groups or just two different populations of the same species that are only morphologically distinct based on their food source and environment? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/2 "2024-02-19T13:47:07Z")
Grizzlies have shoulder humps, rounder ears and larger claws. There are also differances in their foot print. Both can be brown and this adds to the confusion. FWIW, all I know about grizzlies comes from watching Grizzly Adams, Jerimah Johnson and the NatGeo channel. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/3 "2024-02-19T15:45:42Z")
I think you are confusing black bears with grizzly/brown bears Brown bears have shoulder humps, round ears and large claws…so do grizzlies. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/4 "2024-02-19T15:49:36Z")
Ah yes, that’s what I get from going by memory. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/5 "2024-02-19T15:51:10Z")
All grizzly bears are brown bears. ([see here](https://www.nps.gov/katm/learn/photosmultimedia/brown-bear-frequently-asked-questions.htm#:~:text=All%20grizzly%20bears%20are%20brown,a.)) Black bears can also have brown fur. ---
**Author:** ![GrunthosTheFlatulent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grunthostheflatulent/32/21319_2.png) [@GrunthosTheFlatulent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrunthosTheFlatulent)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/6 "2024-02-19T15:54:38Z")
There aren’t two genetically distinct brown bears in North America. They’re all the grizzly subspecies regardless of what habitat they live in. They do have regional adaptations though, i.e. Arctic grizzlies are much smaller than coastal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/7 "2024-02-19T17:05:38Z")
As long as I can run faster than you, I’m good. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/8 "2024-02-19T17:54:20Z")
I’m not gonna ask one which family reunion he goes to. My experience with bears is the juvenile male we had living here. Game warden said he was a Black bear from a brief sighting. I saw him several times. One alittle too close for comfort, IMO. He was distinctly brown. Round ears. Standing in my pond. Too small to be a grizzly. Scary as heck. I haven’t seen him in 2 or 3 years. I assume he’s moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/9 "2024-02-19T18:58:29Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > He was distinctly brown. He was still a “black bear” which is a species. Black bears come in all colors. There are no “brown bears” in Arkansas. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/10 "2024-02-19T19:09:16Z")
I agree with the fact stated, No brown bears in Arkansas. Seen it written. Heard it many times by people in the know. Black bears come in many colors. Told it over and over. Looked at many pictures and first hand photos. Yet I saw a “brown” bear. With my own eyes. 🐻 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/11 "2024-02-19T19:21:07Z")
Grizzly bears (_ **Ursus arctos horribilis** _) are considered a subspecies of [Brown bears](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear) ( _ **Ursus arctos** _). Grizzlies are a population of Brown bears that share common physical features. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/12 "2024-02-19T19:28:31Z")
Not what you asked, but of possible interest, [Polar Bears and Grizzlies can interbreed.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly%E2%80%93polar_bear_hybrid#:~:text=A%20grizzly%E2%80%93polar%20bear%20hybrid,captivity%20and%20in%20the%20wild.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/13 "2024-02-19T19:33:31Z")
So are Kodiak brown bears. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/14 "2024-02-19T20:44:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Grizzly bears (_ **Ursus arctos horribilis** _) are considered a subspecies of [Brown bears](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_bear) ( _ **Ursus arctos** _). _Ursus_ is bear in Latin, while _arktos_ is bear in Greek, which means brown bears are “bear bears” and grizzly bears are “horrible bear bears.” And the Arctic is a place where bears live, and the Antarctic is a place with no bears. > [@Sigene](#): > > Or are they truly separated by clear genetic markers with no blur between the two groups? Genetics can be tricky, because different individuals have different genetics (excluding identical twins, do bears have identical twins?). As you move from parent-offspring groups, to local populations, regional populations, etc., you can expect the individuals to show less genetic relationship. If you have enough information, you might be able to take a genetic sample and say it seems to be closer related to Arkansas black bears than to Alaskan black bears, even though they are the same species. The primary issue is that groupings of things into species is a human imposed condition, not something inherent to the natural order. Genetic tasting may classify an animal as either a brown/grizzly bear or a polar bear, yet they can produce fertile offspring. So there is always blur between close groups. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/15 "2024-02-19T20:47:11Z")
Can I take a _ **Ursus arctos horribilis** _ at a young age and plop him down in a coastal area to where he would grow and take on the physical characteristics (e.g. size) indistinguishable from neighboring brown bears? This plays to how ‘artificial’ our construct is on calling grizzlies a different subspecies. To me if they don’t change physically to match the brown bear population, that is evidence that the difference is guided by genetics and not environment. I have a harder time calling something a true subspecies if environment and food source is the largest cause of the morphological difference. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/16 "2024-02-19T21:11:51Z")
_Subspecies_ is a horrible designation that has no consistent meaning. All evidence shows the common characteristics of Grizzlies to be genetic, not environmental, yet not very genetically distinctive and likely to be found in any concentrated population of a species. All Brown bears are the result of long term intermixing of the same set of genes from a common ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/17 "2024-02-19T21:19:17Z")
> [@Sigene](#): > > I have a harder time calling something a true subspecies if environment and food source is the largest cause of the morphological difference. Except that sub-species can be defined by naturally breeding population group, so geographic isolation can cause distinct groups that are considered different sub-species. As mentioned, all of these classification demarcations are human efforts to create lines within a blurry gray area. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/18 "2024-02-20T00:09:21Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I agree with the fact stated, No brown bears in Arkansas. Seen it written. Heard it many times by people in the know. Black bears come in many colors. Told it over and over. Looked at many pictures and first hand photos. > > Yet I saw a “brown” bear. With my own eyes. What is “yet” and “with my own eyes” supposed to mean here? In plain English, it implies that you think what you saw is a contradiction of what went before. Is there some part you do not understand about the fact that there are species named Brown bear (_Ursus arctos_) and American black bear (_Ursus americanus_), but that not all members of the latter species are colored black? > **[Cinnamon bear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon_bear)** > > The cinnamon bear (Ursus americanus cinnamomum) is both a highly variable color morph and a subspecies of the American black bear, native to the United States and Canada. > As a subspecies, they therefore most likely exist alongside the mostly black-colored eastern American black bears present in those regions, and breed with them. The most striking difference between a cinnamon bear and any other black bear is its brown or red-brown fur, reminiscent of cinnamon. The subspecies was given this de... ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/19 "2024-02-20T01:05:16Z")
Oh, I understand. They have all the cites. All the proof… all the knowledge. I still saw a brown bear. It’s a thing with me. Like the time a grand-daddy spider bit my toe. Everyone says no, couldn’t have happened. Yet it did. I saw it with my own eyes. Unlike the bear(thank heaven) I felt it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2024, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765/20 "2024-02-20T02:04:29Z")
Are you saying you saw a black bear (its species) that was brown (its actual color)? Or a brown bear (its species)? It still sounds like you’re saying you saw the latter, and you’re going to believe your own eyes, not some expert cite says that species isn’t found in your state. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-grizzly-and-brown-bears/997765.md?page=2)