# Difference between informing and promoting? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 22, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027 "2013-01-22T18:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/41 "2013-01-23T21:03:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The only difference is that the OP here suggests mass, rather than individual, action in order to enable everyone, rather than an individual, to see the movie. Right. Which makes this more of a campaign or cause thread than a discussion of the movie itself. > [@](#): > > But unlike the hypothetical theater thread, people who don’t want to engage in the action can still see the movie, so the required action is unnecessary for any individual reader. In which case there’s not much point in opening the thread now; the movie is in production and may not get finished or may be a long way off. > [@](#): > > Both the real and the hypothetical threads have their focus on the content of the movie. This one didn’t. It was about the Kickstarter campaign. > [@](#): > > As a compromise, perhaps the thread could be reopened, absent the link, so that the movie could be discussed? Why not start a new one that’s about the actual movie instead of the way the movie is funded? That wouldn’t require our permission and anybody could do it at any time. If you want to post a thread that involves suggesting people donate to a campaign of some type, we want people to go through us. > [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > I’ve seen (and contributed to) threads where someone asks “Where can I buy such-and-such a part”, where everyone responding gives their favorite company website for buying that part. Is this in violation of the bolded part, or is that on the right side of the ‘fine line’? In that example you’re not trying to get the poster to buy anything. The poster has already stated his intent to the part and you’re suggesting someplace he can get it. Again, we’ve always allowed this. We don’t actually have to revisit every old decision just because someone asks a question about something new. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/42 "2013-01-23T21:11:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why not start a new one that’s about the actual movie instead of the way the movie is funded? That wouldn’t require our permission and anybody could do it at any time. If you want to post a thread that involves suggesting people donate to a campaign of some type, we want people to go through us. There was one. It got closed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/43 "2013-01-23T21:14:15Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > There was one. What was that thread called again? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/44 "2013-01-23T21:21:27Z")
Are you arguing against the word Kickstarter or threads soliciting for money? Because ultrafilter’s thread was clearly about the actual movie. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/45 "2013-01-23T21:24:53Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Are you arguing against the word Kickstarter or threads soliciting for money? Because ultrafilter’s thread was clearly about the actual movie. In the OP he says he threw in some money towards it. Seemed, to me at least, the OP was about bringing attention that the movie exists AND that a fundraising effort exists. He endorses the fundraising by saying he contributed to it. Not the most egregious example but not the most subtle either. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/46 "2013-01-23T21:33:47Z")
Yeah? People mention that they bought, are buying or plan to buy stuff all the time on this board. If a thread were nothing but a plug for a kickstarter, then that’s a problem, but the thread under discussion was clearly about the movie. I see no difference between a kickstarter for a movie to be made and buying the DVD afterwards anymore than there’s a difference between pre-ordering a game and buying it a month after it comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/47 "2013-01-23T21:37:00Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Are you arguing against the word Kickstarter or threads soliciting for money? I’m not arguing against either. Posters can start threads about Kickstarter campaigns or ask for money - _they just have to ask us for permission first._ I already mentioned this upthread, but **ultrafilter** ’s thread was called “Kickstarter for a documentary on James Randi.” And here’s the OP: > [@Kickstarter for a documentary on James Randi](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kickstarter-for-a-documentary-on-james-randi/648023/1): > > I know that Randi has a few fans here, so this might be of interest. There’s a Kickstarter campaign going on right now for a documentary titled > An Honest Liar: The Amazing Randi Story. Here’s the description from the site: > > > [@](#): > > > > An Honest Liar profiles the colorful life of famed magician turned professional skeptic James “The Amazing” Randi as he embarks on a series of public crusades to expose America’s psychics, faith healers and con artists with religious fervor. But you never know whether to trust a master deceiver - and there’s more to Randi’s life than meets the eye. > > This looks cool enough that I threw in for a download copy. The title of the movie was linked to the Kickstarter site. [QUOTE=Inner Stickler] Because ultrafilter’s thread was clearly about the actual movie. [/QUOTE] I’m not seeing it. The title of the thread had Kickstarter in it, he linked to the Kickstarter page, and his description of the movie - the only bit that was “about the actual movie” - was taken from the Kickstarter site. And I’d like to emphasize here that I’m not suggesting **ultrafilter** was spamming or anything and we probably haven’t made it clear how we were going to handle threads like this. But yes, this was a thread about the funding of the movie, and it would have been better to ask us before posting it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/48 "2013-01-23T21:46:35Z")
Yeah, because Kickstarter is where the movie is. It doesn’t exist yet. This is how his thread would look sans kickstarter > [@](#): > > I understand there’s a movie about James Randi that might get made. You can’t sensibly talk about the movie yet without necessarily talking about kickstarter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/49 "2013-01-23T21:55:36Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You can’t sensibly talk about the movie yet without necessarily talking about kickstarter. That’s a different argument from saying the thread is not about the Kickstarter campaign, which seemed to be what you were saying before. And it doesn’t affect the question of how we moderate threads about these kinds of fundraising efforts. In point of fact there’s a whole website for the movie and everything. You can see a trailer and read up on Randi’s life story, and (if you’re a fan of his) you can talk about what subjects or incidents you would want them to see in the movie or who would make a good interview subject, for example. So yes, it would be possible to talk about the movie without focusing on Kickstarter. The thread that got closed didn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/50 "2013-01-23T21:58:32Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > And it is “better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission”, though I’ve been known to knowingly mangle and twist quotes when it serves my purpose. Even better not to do either one, in my experience. ETA: neither ask nor beg, I mean. I’m cool with both mangling and twisting. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/51 "2013-01-23T21:59:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In point of fact there’s a whole website for the movie and everything. A whole website that’s currently focused on getting you to donate to the kickstarter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/52 "2013-01-23T22:05:11Z")
Not true, and also not relevant to the way the thread was modded. So I trust that settles your objection? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/53 "2013-01-23T22:06:13Z")
My chief thought about this is that the funding of something via Kickstarter is a legitimate topic that’s worthy of discussion as an interesting subject in its own right. Crowdsourcing is the future and I could see a lot of interesting talk on the progress a project has made towards its goal. At least when we’re talking about projects by established/bonafide artists. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/54 "2013-01-23T22:07:15Z")
We’re not debating the merit of the project – which is great, no doubt about it. We’re just saying if you want to link to or publicize these projects on the Straight Dope Message Board we want to see it first and approve it. That’s how we’ve always been here, nothing is new, nothing has changed. We are not ascribing anything to ultrafilter neither; we’re sure he had the best of intentions. Crowdfunding is a movement that will no doubt grow; for a lot of situations it’s maybe the only way creative work will get operating capital. (It’s also proving to be a nifty charitable device as well.) We’re not against it, just want to have some control over it. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/55 "2013-01-23T22:18:47Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Even better not to do either one, in my experience. > > ETA: neither ask nor beg, I mean. I’m cool with both mangling and twisting. I like your style, but what about threats and actual violence? Are you cool with them too? If so, I’d like to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/56 "2013-01-23T22:21:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not true, and also not relevant to the way the thread was modded. So I trust that settles your objection? Yes true and yes relevant. I trust that settles your objection to my objection? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/57 "2013-01-23T22:30:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yes true and yes relevant. I trust that settles your objection to my objection? I’d answered your objections already. But this does resolve the question of whether you’re interested in this issue or just wasting time. 😉 I release you from your obligation to argue about this. Go and be free! ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/58 "2013-01-23T22:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Every single time someone has quoted that line to me after doing something they knew to ask permission for, I told them that they were wrong, and that they weren’t forgiven. > I hate that saying. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > To me it means, “I’ll do it anyway, and if she/he gets upset I’ll just promise not to do it again.” Some obstacles are there for a very good reason, and most aren’t there _jus_t to make it harder for you. Aren’t you the guy who deliberately broke a rule in the Pit and then reported the infraction yourself. I guess the difference is you didn’t apologise fir that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/59 "2013-01-23T22:43:25Z")
> [@Krav\_Manga](#): > > Aren’t you the guy who deliberately broke a rule in the Pit and then reported the infraction yourself. I guess the difference is you didn’t apologise fir that. This is irrelevant to the discussion. If you want to argue about a personal issue, do it in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027/60 "2013-01-23T22:49:12Z")
I disagree. If Czarcasm’s personal opnion on the use of the phrase ‘it’s better to ask forgiveness than permission’ is relevant, then pointing out his potential hypocrisy is just as relevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-informing-and-promoting/648027.md?page=4)