# Difference between "prefecture" and "county" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 27, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057 "2015-08-27T13:26:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/1 "2015-08-27T13:26:47Z")
Japan has a governmental unit called a “prefecture,” which is at a level somewhere between “nation” and “city.” Except Japan doesn’t call them prefectures, they call them something else; it’s English-language speakers who call them prefectures. So why do we call them prefectures and not counties? Is there a meaningful difference between a prefecture and a county? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/2 "2015-08-27T13:51:51Z")
In France a prefecture is an agency for local application of the authority of central rather than local (or locally-elected) government. Is that the distinction that’s being made? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/3 "2015-08-27T14:08:36Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Japan has a governmental unit called a “prefecture,” which is at a level somewhere between “nation” and “city.” > > Except Japan doesn’t call them prefectures, they call them something else; it’s English-language speakers who call them prefectures. So why do we call them prefectures and not counties? Is there a meaningful difference between a prefecture and a county? A county is ruled by a count? Well, at least that was once true, in places that had a ruling nobility (medieval or post-). Still, Wikipedia says the translation for “todofuken” (“都道府県”, the actual Japanese word for what we call “prefecture”) comes from the first Western trading contacts, and the language they spoke: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The West’s use of “prefecture” to label these Japanese regions stems from 16th-century Portuguese explorers’ and traders’ use of “prefeitura” to describe the fiefdoms they encountered there. From [Prefectures of Japan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefectures_of_Japan#Background) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/4 "2015-08-27T14:11:55Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > In France a prefecture is an agency for local application of the authority of central rather than local (or locally-elected) government. Is that the distinction that’s being made? Similar. The English word “prefecture” is taken from Portuguese, as early traders from that country named local fiefdoms. In Portuguese, the name is closer to “municipality” than “province.” Japan is a [unitary state](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_state) > [@](#): > > A unitary state is a state governed as one single power in which the central government is ultimately supreme and any administrative divisions (subnational units) exercise only powers that their central government chooses to delegate. The majority of states in the world have a unitary system of government. In contrast, the US is a federation in which power is shared between the States and the Federal Government. Japanese prefectures have elected governors and assemblies. They have greater powers than US counties but ultimately can only exercise them to the degree that the National government allows. As there isn’t a layer of government between the prefecture and the national government then it’s probably less confusing than to call them counties. ETA: Ninja’d by **gnoitall** ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/5 "2015-08-27T14:20:08Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Japan has a governmental unit called a “prefecture,” which is at a level somewhere between “nation” and “city.” > > Except Japan doesn’t call them prefectures, they call them something else; it’s English-language speakers who call them prefectures. So why do we call them prefectures and not counties? Is there a meaningful difference between a prefecture and a county? Some Japanese officials speak English, too, and if \*they \*decided that the English name was “Prefecture”, then that’s what we should call it. It’s like the whole Peking/Beijing thing. Neither is the exact actual Chinese name of the city, but that doesn’t mean we can spell it the way we like. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/6 "2015-08-27T15:13:07Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Still, Wikipedia says the translation for “todofuken” (“都道府県”, the actual Japanese word for what we call “prefecture”) Actually, there are four Japanese words for “prefecture” 都, _to_;道, _do_; 府, _fu_; and 県, which correspond to “prefecture.” They originally derived from various types of local governments such as special municipalities. Tokyo-to 都　is an example of this. Within Tokyo Prefecture, there are smaller units of governments including cities and the 区 _ku_ which was traditionally translated as “ward” but some of the _ku_ call themselves cities. Since 1943 when Tokyo City was merged with Tokyo Prefecture, there hasn’t been a Tokyo City in the same sense as LA or NYC. 京都府, _Kyotofu_ is the former capital of Japan and is an example of 府 _fu_. Hokkaido 北海道, the northern island is the only prefecture to use 道 _dou_. It used to have a different administrative level but this was changed after the war. Most of the prefectures use 県 _ken_. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/7 "2015-08-27T15:16:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Some Japanese officials speak English, too, and if \*they \*decided that the English name was “Prefecture”, then that’s what we should call it. > > It’s like the whole Peking/Beijing thing. Neither is the exact actual Chinese name of the city, but that doesn’t mean we can spell it the way we like. I think this is remarkable unhelpful. The question in the OP is legitimate and doesn’t deserve to be dismissed like this. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/8 "2015-08-27T15:48:06Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > I think this is remarkable unhelpful. The question in the OP is legitimate and doesn’t deserve to be dismissed like this. But it’s a legitimate answer to the OP’s first question, “So why do we call them prefectures and not counties?” – We call them prefectures because that’s what the Japanese call them in English. Of course, that leads to the next question, Why do the Japanese call them prefectures? That’s also within the scope of this thread, but Alessan’s answer is correct and answers the OP, at least in part. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/9 "2015-08-28T00:52:48Z")
It’s basically a historical accident. “Prefecture”, or its equivalent in other languages, is a term used in cultures whose governmental arrangements evolved out of Roman imperial structures. “County” is used in cultures whose governmental arrangements evolved out of Teutonic origins. Japanese arrangements, of course, didn’t evolve from either, but the first westerners to describe them were the Portuguese, and they used the terminology familiar to them. And English-speaking cultures didn’t first learn about Japan by first-hand observation, but by hearing about Japan from the Portuguese, so they acquired the Portuguese terminology. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/10 "2015-08-28T01:13:25Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > We call them prefectures because that’s what the Japanese call them in English. Is that really true, or do English-speaking Japanese call them prefectures because that was already the standard English-language terminology for those same entities (derived from Portuguese)? The Peking/Beijing thing represents various attempts to transcribe the Chinese sounds into the Latin alphabet, but that’s not the case with prefecture. I think you’re confusing cause and effect. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/11 "2015-08-28T02:15:50Z")
Well, again, we shouldn’t assume that English was the first foreign language that Japanese officials ever had occasion to use. Presumably what they first embraced was the Portuguese use of _prefeitura_. And, then, when English came along, and turned out to have pretty much the same word in it, that was the obvious word to use - both for native English speakers and Japanese speakers of English. We could equally ask why the US has “county” for its local government divisions when the US never had any counts. The answer is that they got it the English, but then we reflect that the English don’t have counts either. They got it from the Normans, who _did_ have counts (though “county” for the Normans wasn’t an area of territory ruled over over by a count, but the administrative apparatus presided over by a count - his court, his council). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/12 "2015-08-28T04:39:47Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Similar. The English word “prefecture” is taken from Portuguese, as early traders from that country named local fiefdoms. In Portuguese, the name is closer to “municipality” than “province.” Well etymologically the English word is from Latin as far as I can tell, but you’re on to something. Tokugawa-era and before Japan’s European influence was mostly Portuguese and Dutch. Wikipedia says: “The West’s use of “prefecture” to label these Japanese regions stems from 16th-century Portuguese explorers’ and traders’ use of “prefeitura” to describe the fiefdoms they encountered there. Its original sense in Portuguese, however, was closer to “municipality” than “province”.” > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Actually, there are four Japanese words for “prefecture” 都, _to_;道, \*do[/I My Japanese study was awhile ago and never advanced, but I know that “t” sounds often change to “d” due to palatalization when the following consonant influences it. Can 都 be pronounced “do” or 道 “to”? ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/13 "2015-08-28T05:00:19Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > My Japanese study was awhile ago and never advanced, but I know that “t” sounds often change to “d” due to palatalization when the following consonant influences it. Can 都 be pronounced “do” or 道 “to”? 道 can be tou or dou, as for 都 I’m not aware of any readings that use do, but my dictionary gives an obscure, archaic term for a form of poetry and a couple of proper nouns that use “do” for it. So as a general rule, not really. (It **can** be read as shi, though) (As a side note, until Tokyo Bayer posted it, I never noticed that Hokkaido is literally “North Sea Prefecture”) ---
**Author:** ![Saturn\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Saturn\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saturn_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-prefecture-and-county/729057/14 "2015-08-29T06:04:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Japan has a governmental unit called a “prefecture,” which is at a level somewhere between “nation” and “city.” > > Except Japan doesn’t call them prefectures, they call them something else; it’s English-language speakers who call them prefectures. So why do we call them prefectures and not counties? Is there a meaningful difference between a prefecture and a county? Because we have counties in Japan as well and they’re called “郡”, (gun). Guns are markedly different from prefectures and closer to cities in terms of administrative area, except guns do not have administrative councils, (anymore), the individual towns and villages that comprise them do. Guns are now just regional demarcations.