# Difference between recreational and professional tennis players/golfers **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 9, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189 "2014-08-09T21:23:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/1 "2014-08-09T21:23:35Z")
What separates recreational players of golf and tennis from pros? I can figure out the difference for other sports, but not these two. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/2 "2014-08-09T22:00:08Z")
Talent. Seriously, it’s talent. I’m a recreational golfer, so I should know. I could hit a thousand balls a day and would still be nowhere near the professional level. ---
**Author:** ![sevenwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@sevenwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sevenwood)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/3 "2014-08-09T22:07:39Z")
Let me give you a golf example. If a professional golfer is 100 yards away from the pin, he gets really upset if his next shot puts him more than five feet from the pin. I’m happy if my next shot puts me on the green. If a professional golfer is 200 yards away from the pin, he hits a five iron and is really unhappy if his next shot doesn’t put him on the green. I’ll be hitting a three-iron and I’ll be ecstatic if I end up within 25 yards of the green. If a professional golfer is on the green and within fifteen feet of the pin, he’s really unhappy if he doesn’t hole the putt. I expect to two-putt it. (Add all of that up and multiply by 18 and you end up with a lot of extra shots.) ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/4 "2014-08-09T22:31:59Z")
Time golfers, my guess was iron play, which your example seems to confirm. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/5 "2014-08-10T18:01:42Z")
Tennis? Dude, they are incredible athletes that compete vigourously for the top spot. If I played the 300th ranked female tennis player in the world(I’m male), she’d bagel me 6-0, 6-0, 6-0. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/6 "2014-08-10T18:17:28Z")
Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/7 "2014-08-10T19:24:07Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. And you don’t serve very much in triathlons. I’m not getting your point. Is running the only thing that separates people physically? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/8 "2014-08-10T19:30:22Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray…all are supreme athletes. Really first-class. The ground they cover and the speed with which they do it is beyond our mortal comprehension. The speed and accuracy of their shots are astonishing. Take the best club player you know and understand that they’d be humiliated and destroyed in about 20 minutes flat. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/9 "2014-08-10T19:59:43Z")
The German track coach said Graf could’ve been a (IIRC) good 800m runner. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/10 "2014-08-11T01:11:37Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. Are you kidding? Sure, they don’t cover the distance of a soccer player, but they spend a lot of time running in very short bursts. Also, it’s not just about running; it’s about playing. Have you ever been to a professional tennis tournament and watched the matches there? You should try it sometime, especially on the outer courts, where you can get closer to the action. The athletic skill and the power of the pros is incredible. I remember the first time i went to the Australian Open, in Melbourne. I was watching some women’s matches on the outside courts, and the most amazing thing to me, as a first-time spectator at the event, was the consistent power with which they hit the ball. I’m stronger than those women, but if i tried to hit the ball as hard as they do, it would go into the net or over the baseline about 98 times in 100. They not only hit with power, but they do so accurately and strategically, at a level way above that of the typical weekend player. You get a much better sense of this in person than you ever can from watching tennis on TV. The men are just as skilled and, in most cases, even faster and more powerful. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/11 "2014-08-11T01:23:15Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. You don’t run much in weightlifting, either. Could you compete in Olympic weightlifting? Not a lot of running in boxing; could an amateur boxer take on Tyson in his prime? I mean, no offense, but your question is so silly and pointless that I am wondering if you did not type it out correctly. The difference between a professional tennis player and a recreational player is that the professional is way, way better. They serve the ball harder, return it harder, move faster, make fewer errors, get to balls a rec player wouldn’t be within ten feet of, hit with power and accuracy with all shot types, and they’re better conditioned so they can keep it up for a full match. What exactly did you think the difference was? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/12 "2014-08-11T01:24:31Z")
> [@sevenwood](#): > > If a professional golfer is 100 yards away from the pin, he gets really upset if his next shot puts him more than five feet from the pin. I’m happy if my next shot puts me on the green. > > If a professional golfer is 200 yards away from the pin, he hits a five iron and is really unhappy if his next shot doesn’t put him on the green. I’ll be hitting a three-iron and I’ll be ecstatic if I end up within 25 yards of the green. > > If a professional golfer is on the green and within fifteen feet of the pin, he’s really unhappy if he doesn’t hole the putt. I expect to two-putt it. > > (Add all of that up and multiply by 18 and you end up with a lot of extra shots.) Right. The interesting thing in all of this is that even a weekend hacker (which i was, back in the days when i actually played golf at all) can occasionally pull off a shot that a pro would be proud of. I never had golf lessons, never had an actual handicap, and when i played golf in my early twenties, it was usually no more than 10-15 times a year. And even someone like me, who only ever broke 100 a couple of times on a golf course, could occasionally smack a drive right down the center of the fairway, or drop a five-iron right on the green, or land a 100-yard pitch within ten feet of the hole. And the fact that i could do it occasionally is part of what kept me playing. Every time i made a good shot, i’d think about what i had done and try to replicate it. I would even, on occasion, think to myself, “Surely it can’t be that hard to do that every time?” But it is. It’s incredibly hard. And that’s why the pros are so amazing. They hit good shots time after time after time. If my ball hooked or sliced, it was usually because i fucked up. If their ball draws to the left or fades to the right, it’s usually because they’ve made a conscious decision to do it. We shouldn’t underestimate, also, the importance of practice. The pros might have amazing ability, and some sort of natural talent, but they also practice for hours upon hours every week. Even in a sport like baseball, where they’re playing every day, it still takes a lifetime of practice to get your body to the stage where it does amazing things “naturally.” George Will’s great baseball book _Men At Work_ does a really nice job of showing how even the most talented players rely on unending practice in order to stay at the top of their game. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/13 "2014-08-11T01:28:01Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. Here’s a comparison from another sport. Imagine it’s a baseball game. Except the batter’s box is thirty six feet wide and the pitcher can throw the ball anywhere in that box. And the batter has to hit every pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/14 "2014-08-11T03:49:37Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Right. > > The interesting thing in all of this is that even a weekend hacker (which i was, back in the days when i actually played golf at all) can occasionally pull off a shot that a pro would be proud of. > > I never had golf lessons, never had an actual handicap, and when i played golf in my early twenties, it was usually no more than 10-15 times a year. And even someone like me, who only ever broke 100 a couple of times on a golf course, could occasionally smack a drive right down the center of the fairway, or drop a five-iron right on the green, or land a 100-yard pitch within ten feet of the hole. And the crazy thing is, even if the pro would be happy with the outcome, nine times out of ten they wouldn’t be happy with the shot. A long drive straight down the middle of the fairway is rarely a desired shot. They want it to be on the left or right side of the fairway depending on where the hole is located on the green. They want to move the ball in the air to put it in the best spot while avoiding hazards. Often a 250 yard drive is preferable to a 300 yard one. A short iron has dozens of ways to be hit, all dependent of the lie of the approach shot to the placement of the pin. The pro might want a ball to hop once and stop in place, or they may want it to spin back for an uphill (better) putt. They may want a shot to land 40 feet right of the hole and follow the slope of the green down to the cup. They do things on every shot that even excellent golfers never even think about. > **[VIDEO: Bo Van Pelt's Final Masters Round Includes Hole-In-One](https://www.sbnation.com/2012/4/8/2934458/masters-2012-video-bo-van-pelt-hole-in-one)** > > VIDEO: Bo Van Pelt's Final Masters Round Includes Hole-In-One [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpRmF__A33U&t=1m4s) ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/15 "2014-08-11T06:00:46Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Reason I wondered about tennis: seems like you don’t run to the degree you would in team sports. How much running does an offensive lineman do in football? Or a soccer goalie? Baseball catcher? ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/16 "2014-08-11T12:08:42Z")
David Foster Wallace was a great writer who had been a competive tennis player in his teens. He wrote several essays about tennis, one of which involved him covering the Canadian Open. He spent quite a bit of time talking with and watching a player named Michael Joyce, who at the time was in the top 100 players on earth, and who had to play in the qualifying rounds to get into the tournament. Wallace had thought that he might spend some time hitting some balls against Joyce, but thought better of it. [QUOTE=David Foster Wallace] The idea that there can be wholly distinct levels to competitive tennis – levels so distinct that what’s being played is in essence a whole different game – might seem to you weird and hyperbolic. I have played probably just enough tennis to understand that it’s true. I have played against men who were on a whole different, higher plateau than I, and I have understood on the deepest and most humbling level the impossibility of beating them, of “solving their game.” Knowle is technically entitled to be called a professional, but he is playing a fundamentally different grade of tennis from Michael Joyce’s, one constrained by limitations Joyce does not have. I feel like I could get on a tennis court with Julian Knowle. He would beat me, perhaps handily, but I don’t feel like it would be absurd for me to occupy the same seventy-eight-by-twenty-seventy-foot rectangle as he. The idea of me playing Joyce – or even hitting around with him, which was one of the ideas I was entertaining on the flight to Montreal – is now revealed to me to be in a certain way obscene, and I resolve not even to let Joyce know that I used to play competitive tennis, and (I’d presumed) rather well. This makes me sad. [/QUOTE] Whole article [here](http://www.esquire.com/features/sports/the-string-theory-0796). If you are really interested in the answer to your question as it regards tennis, I highly recommend reading the whole essay. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difference-between-recreational-and-professional-tennis-players-golfers/695189/17 "2014-08-17T02:53:38Z")
The most fundamental difference between the two is that the pro gets paid for it.