# Differences between red vs. red, blue vs. blue states **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670 "2015-08-24T00:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/1 "2015-08-24T00:09:13Z")
How is the liberalism of, say, Oregon, different from the liberalism of Massachusetts? Seems like Massachusetts is ‘traditional’ liberals while Oregon is more libertarian and has a significant number of voters who favor legalized marijuana and legal euthanasia, etc.? And how is the conservatism of Alabama different from that of Oklahoma, Montana or Alaska? Again it seems that the further west a state is, the more libertarian they are? And are states (whether liberal or conservative) more and more irreligious the further north they are located? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/2 "2015-08-24T01:13:27Z")
Iowa and New Hampshire have been studied to death because of their importance in both parties’ selection process. Conservatives in Iowa tend to lean more toward social conservatism while conservatives in New Hampshire lean more to fiscal conservatism. Similarly, liberals in Iowa tend to be more traditional bread and butter economic liberals as opposed to social issues or foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/3 "2015-08-24T01:18:04Z")
According to the [Mercatus Center rankings](http://freedominthe50states.org/), North Dakota and South Dakota are the two most free states in 2013. However, it is certainly not the case that all red states were more free than blue states. Some red states, such as Mississippi, Kansas, and West Virginia, rank very poorly. Overall, red stats in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain regions clearly do better, on average, than those in the South. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/4 "2015-08-24T02:36:24Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > According to the [Mercatus Center rankings](http://freedominthe50states.org/), North Dakota and South Dakota are the two most free states in 2013. However, it is certainly not the case that all red states were more free than blue states. Some red states, such as Mississippi, Kansas, and West Virginia, rank very poorly. Overall, red stats in the Midwest and Rocky Mountain regions clearly do better, on average, than those in the South. LOL, freedom as defined by the Koch brothers ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/5 "2015-08-24T08:47:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > How is the liberalism of, say, Oregon, different from the liberalism of Massachusetts? Massachusetts is rather urban; Oregon is more rural and conservative outside of Portland and Eugene. California also has large conservative areas that just don’t have large populations (except for certain areas like San Diego). > [@](#): > > Seems like Massachusetts is ‘traditional’ liberals while Oregon is more libertarian and has a significant number of voters who favor legalized marijuana and legal euthanasia, etc.? Maybe. > [@](#): > > And how is the conservatism of Alabama different from that of Oklahoma, Montana or Alaska? Montana has gone for Republican presidential candidates in recent elections, but has a Democratic executive and one of each for US Senate representation. The state favors libertarian-leaning people from either party. > [@](#): > > Again it seems that the further west a state is, the more libertarian they are? Kind of, although it seems you are contrasting the West with New England and the conservative South. NH and VT (and ME?) have strong libertarian streaks, even if they prefer different parties. > [@](#): > > And are states (whether liberal or conservative) more and more irreligious the further north they are located? More or less. And of course excepting Utah. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/6 "2015-08-24T11:39:34Z")
My two cents: Red States: Those in the deep south became Republican as part of Nixon’s southern strategy after the passage of the Civil Rights Act. They hate the federal government largely because of integration. Some of the Bible Belt issues- abortion, gay marriage drive their votes. Bible Belters are driven by opposition to abortion, gay rights, and non-traditional gender roles. They are deathly afraid of non-Christians and non-whites. They want the return to the good old days of segregation and prayer in schools and see Democrats as a threat to their Christianity. Westerners love their guns. Every time Diane Feinstein farts, they make a run to the ammo store. Since much of their land is federally owned, they see the federal government as a monster. Blue States: New England and the Rust Belts are the traditional New Dealers, union members, and minorities. Being more urban, they see and use government services in mass transportation and urban infrastructure and do not see government as the enemy. West Coasters are also pretty culturally diverse with large Asian and Hispanic populations. They are very eco-conscious and untrusting of big corporations. I don’t see libertarianism as a factor in either camp. It is and always will be a fringe element of the Republican Party. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/7 "2015-08-24T14:39:58Z")
I think guns are not so much a western issue as a rural issue (though many western states are highly rural). Rural folks in the eastern states also tend to be pretty strongly pro-gun. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/8 "2015-08-24T14:46:07Z")
Democrats in Rocky Mountain states are much more pro-gun than Democrats on either Coast. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/9 "2015-08-24T14:51:10Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Democrats in Rocky Mountain states are much more pro-gun than Democrats on either Coast. This is undoubtedly true, it is more of a rural-urban thing in my view. I’m just saying that if you’re a Republican in a western state, guns are further up on your list of worries than say abortion whereas Bible Belters would say the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/10 "2015-08-24T15:51:11Z")
For that matter, many Democrats in Rocky Mountain states are more pro-gun than many Republicans on the coasts. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/11 "2015-08-24T16:22:46Z")
How do blue states which are monochrome like Vermont compare to states that are blue due to minorities like Illinois or colorado? Also what about rural vs urban? Maine is very rural and is fairly blue, but Pennsylvania is only blue because of urban areas. Then you have places like California which is blue because of three large cities, but the cities are different culturally. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/12 "2015-08-24T16:47:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > This is undoubtedly true, it is more of a rural-urban thing in my view. A lot of it is. See [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states#/media/File:Gastner_map_purple_byarea_bycounty.png) 2008 “red-blue” election map broken down by county. The only solid-red areas are rural, the only solid-blue areas are urban. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/13 "2015-08-24T18:08:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > LOL, freedom as defined by the Koch brothers I’m always entertained by the way that certain people try to make every thread about the Koch brothers even when they’re totally unrelated to the topic, but this is surely the most extreme example I’ve yet seen. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/14 "2015-08-24T18:23:03Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I’m always entertained by the way that certain people try to make every thread about the Koch brothers even when they’re totally unrelated to the topic, but this is surely the most extreme example I’ve yet seen. So Charles Koch being a member of the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center is your idea of “totally unrelated”? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/15 "2015-08-24T19:10:39Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > How do blue states which are monochrome like Vermont compare to states that are blue due to minorities like Illinois or colorado? Illinois generally gets classified as a blue state, but it’s not as simple as “due to minorities”. Voting in Illinois often comes down to, “how does Cook County vote, versus the rest of the state?”, and that very typically plays out in a “Cook votes Democratic, the suburbs and Downstate vote Republican” dynamic. But, this is not only because Cook County has a (fairly) large minority population: Cook County is still 55% white (and 25% black, as well as 24% Hispanic). The Democratic machine dominates politics in Cook County, and that machine has traditionally been led by white men, including both Mayor Daleys. The power of that machine extends to the state legislature, where [Michael Madigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Madigan) (from Chicago) has been Speaker of the House for all but two of the past 32 years (and his daughter Lisa is the Illinois Attorney General). Illinois has had both Republican and Democratic governors over time, as well as often having both Republican and Democratic US Senators. However, it’s pretty clear that it’s Madigan and the Democratic machine which really hold the power in the state – as our new Republican governor, Bruce Rauner, has quickly discovered (Rauner and the Democrats are in a stalemate over the state budget crisis). OK, that was too long an explanation. In short: Illinois is “blue”(ish) in large part because the Cook County political machine happens to identify itself as Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/16 "2015-08-24T19:22:30Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Democrats in Rocky Mountain states are much more pro-gun than Democrats on either Coast. Democrats in Rocky Mountain states are much more pro-gun than \*Republicans \*on either Coast. Unless Christie is running for President. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/17 "2015-08-24T20:48:03Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > So Charles Koch being a member of the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center is your idea of “totally unrelated”? Yes, obviously Charles Koch being a member of the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center is totally unrelated to a thread about the differences between various red states and between various blue states. Now if someone started a thread titled, “Who is on the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center”, then it would be relevant. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/18 "2015-08-24T21:45:42Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Yes, obviously Charles Koch being a member of the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center is totally unrelated to a thread about the differences between various red states and between various blue states. > > Now if someone started a thread titled, “Who is on the Board of Directors of the Mercatus Center”, then it would be relevant. I think you are missing that your original snark was directed at someone challenging the impartiality of a study from Mercatus Center. You know the one that you quoted as a cite in this thread. Do you seriously not see why a study from an organization with one of Koch brothers in the freaking Board of Directors gets a sideways look? Cause I gotta tell, to most of us that does not meet the bar for “totally unrelated”. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/19 "2015-08-25T00:04:47Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I think you are missing that your original snark was directed at someone challenging the impartiality of a study from Mercatus Center. You know the one that you quoted as a cite in this thread. > > Do you seriously not see why a study from an organization with one of Koch brothers in the freaking Board of Directors gets a sideways look? > > Cause I gotta tell, to most of us that does not meet the bar for “totally unrelated”. If you have some evidence that anything the Mercatus Center said was not true, I’m happy to look at your evidence. Ignoring the content of a claim while focusing on the person making the claim is a logical fallacy, the _ad hominem_ fallacy, to be exact. (I’m not sure if there’s a name for the fallacy ignoring both the claim and the person making the claim while focusing on a member of the board of directors. Perhaps we should call that the _ad kochum_ fallacy.) ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670/20 "2015-08-25T02:14:08Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If you have some evidence that anything the Mercatus Center said was not true, I’m happy to look at your evidence. Ignoring the content of a claim while focusing on the person making the claim is a logical fallacy, the _ad hominem_ fallacy, to be exact. (I’m not sure if there’s a name for the fallacy ignoring both the claim and the person making the claim while focusing on a member of the board of directors. Perhaps we should call that the _ad kochum_ fallacy.) Oh, I will surely admit that I personally have no data or cite to challenge the study itself, but what I was challenging was your chastisement of another poster when they brought up the Koch Brothers. You said that the reference to the Koch brothers was “totally unrelated to the study”. I’m simply challenging you on the accuracy of that statement. You can say the relationship doesn’t matter, and you may be right, but you cannot say there is not a relationship. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/differences-between-red-vs-red-blue-vs-blue-states/728670.md?page=2)