# Different roads: South Africa and Zimbabwe **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/different-roads-south-africa-and-zimbabwe/240006 "2004-04-14T18:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/different-roads-south-africa-and-zimbabwe/240006/21 "2004-04-18T20:05:06Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Hey, **Mr Dibble**! > > My apologies for misspelling your name above ! And you seem to keep posting seconds before I do, so it seems like I’m ignoring you. I’m not ! It’s just that I’m not alway too particular about previewing. > > I appreciate your comments. I plan to go to your part of the world one day, and information about it is very scarce in these parts. I still wonder about the stories I hear about privatization of crucial resources (eg water), so people who can’t pay lose access. This is the kind of thing that is happening all over the world (even in developed countries) and I hope that it doesn’t become too much of a pattern. No problem, I didn’t notice the misspelling 8). Sorry about only replying today - been enjoying my fifth anniversary! BTW, that’s the other real material change - **Mrs Dibble** and I would not have been allowed to marry under the old Immorality Act. Please visit, you’ll see it’s really a great country. I don’t know about privitisation of e.g. water - not something I’ve noticed. The government is very into the exact opposite - increased access to e.g. water and electricity for everyone, down to specifying a minimum amount of water that everyone gets free of charge on their municipal water bill. Enough for drinking, cooking , washing. Same with access to electricity - the country has increased access to power severalfold in the last few years. So wherever you’ve been getting your info, it doesn’t apply to South Africa - here the trend is _increased_ access, not increased privatisation. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/different-roads-south-africa-and-zimbabwe/240006/22 "2004-04-19T07:35:13Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Interesting, **Grim**. Can you recommend a good book about the good Mr Tutu? I’d love to know more about him. An excellent one which would also cover many of your questions about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is _No Future Without Forgiveness_ - his own reflections/meditations on those highly significant events ([here on Amazon.co.uk](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0712604855/qid=1082359015/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_11_2/202-7026474-5130205)) - be prepared to weep at some of the testimony that is recounted. > [@cowgirl](#): > > Do you have any comments about racism in SA? Has it gotten better, worse, gone underground? It is difficult for me to comment, living in London for the past 4 years as I have. I think that this will vary widely from place to place - I read an interesting article by an African journalist just before I left saying that racism was more of a problem in Cape Town (a bastion of liberalism under Apartheid) now than in the Vaal triangle (where the reverse was true). His thesis was that up North, racist attitudes were out in the open and could be confronted and dealt with while in the Cape it was more subtle and patronising and has never been addressed and therefore still exists… an interesting read… Another interesting after-effect of the racist society that South Africa was is the antipathy between many Coloureds (mixed-race) and Blacks. The Coloured people were also oppressed under Apartheid, while Blacks were confined to manual labour, they were allocated the “skilled labour” sector (carpentry, tailors, bookkeepers, etc), but still treated as second class citizens at best. With the onset of democracy, many feel that a system that favoured white people has simply been replaced by a system that favours black people, and they are still part of the “oppressed masses”. The New National Party (NNP) has played on this paranoia for the last 10 years, which explains how they have been able to hang on to some vestiges of power for so long, but it gladdens my heart to see their support dwindling at long last in these [latest elections](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3629953.stm). Grim ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/different-roads-south-africa-and-zimbabwe/240006/23 "2004-04-20T19:07:12Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > His thesis was that up North, racist attitudes were out in the open and could be confronted and dealt with while in the Cape it was more subtle and patronising and has never been addressed and therefore still exists… an interesting read… I’ve heard this before as well, in reference to the Southern US (openly racist) vs the North (never addressed) or the USA vs Canada. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/different-roads-south-africa-and-zimbabwe/240006.md?page=1)