# Difficult Comics Question--True Geeks Only--Legion Of Substitute Heroes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641 "2006-12-03T00:43:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/21 "2006-12-05T00:20:25Z")
> [@The New and Improved Superman](#): > > Ayla was inducted during a period when founding member Lightning Lad was dead. Yeeees, I’m not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is ‘no, Night Girl’s origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren’t limited’. Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a ‘natural power’ (assumed to be mutation or racial trait): Lightning Lad (Accident) Sun Boy (Accident) Lightning Lass (Accident) Collossal Boy (Accident) Wildfire (Accident) Bouncing Boy (Accident) Night Girl (Scientific change) Fire Lad (Accident) Sensor Girl (Mystical change) White Witch (Training) Computo (Accident) Ultra Boy (Accident) Karate Kid (Training) Shadow Lass (Mystical change) Invisible Kid (Scientific change) Catspaw (Scientific change) Timber Wolf (Scientific change) Devlin O’Ryan (Accident) Color Kid (Accident) Chlorophil Kid (Accident) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/22 "2006-12-05T00:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=The New and Improved Superman] Ayla was inducted during a period when founding member Lightning Lad was dead. (He got better.) As far the “naturally occuring” power requirement, it meant that each Legionnaire had to have a power or ability that was not the product of a weapon or gadget. Owning a Green Lantern power ring for example would not get a character inducted into the Legion, since the ring is a device. [/QUOTE] Which of course raises the question of how Brainiac 5 got to keep his Legion membership since he doesn’t have a superpower other than his gadgets. I guess they just kept him around to keep an eye on him. Lightning Lad: Hey Brainy, we were talking and we realized that you don’t have a superpower… (sees Brainiac 5 working on a new Computo)… uh… other than uh… super-intelligence! Yes, that’s it! Super-intelligence! Keep up the good work! And we need more flight rings when you get a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/23 "2006-12-05T00:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] IIRC the Subs either lacked control (Infectious lass, Polar lad) or had a power judged as pathetic (Color Kid, Chlorophyl Boy). [/QUOTE] There was also ‘too dangerous a limitation’ - which is what got Night Girl. Also, while it was why they were rejected, Polar Boy and Fire Lad didn’t really demonstrate a lack of control of their powers, IMO. Polar Boy just got a little over-enthusiastic and demonstrated his power level, not his control, and they didn’t give him a chance to prove he could control it. And Fire Lad showed good control and good sense of what to direct it at, but they still declined him because he had the potential to cause problems if he screwed up. On the other hand, IIRC, in some later stories, Fire Lad _was_ shown to have a minor problem with control. Honestly, Infectious Lass, and Color Kid were the only main-team Subbies (the Subbies had an auxillary, which contained heroes with even lamer powers - Double Header and Antenna Lad) that really deserved to be declined. Infectious Lass did have a major control problem (until after the 5 year gap), and Color Kid’s powers WERE lame (except under a handful of very specific circumstances). ---
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/24 "2006-12-05T00:31:22Z")
[QUOTE=Tengu] Yeeees, I’m not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is ‘no, Night Girl’s origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren’t limited’. Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a ‘natural power’ (assumed to be mutation or racial trait): Lightning Lad (Accident) Sun Boy (Accident) Lightning Lass (Accident) Collossal Boy (Accident) Wildfire (Accident) Bouncing Boy (Accident) Night Girl (Scientific change) Fire Lad (Accident) Sensor Girl (Mystical change) White Witch (Training) Computo (Accident) Ultra Boy (Accident) Karate Kid (Training) Shadow Lass (Mystical change) Invisible Kid (Scientific change) Catspaw (Scientific change) Timber Wolf (Scientific change) Devlin O’Ryan (Accident) Color Kid (Accident) Chlorophil Kid (Accident) [/QUOTE] Bouncing Boy (scientific change) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/25 "2006-12-05T00:31:33Z")
[QUOTE=Just Some Guy] Which of course raises the question of how Brainiac 5 got to keep his Legion membership since he doesn’t have a superpower other than his gadgets. [/QUOTE] He, like Karate Kid, while not having a superpower in the classical sense, had a non-power of such a level it became a de-facto superpower - Karate Kid’s skill level with his Super Karate allowed him to go toe-to-toe with Superboy (although Supes did win the fight, it was still impressive), and Brainiac 5’s 12th Level Intelligence is so far above even a standard Coluan that it’s essentially the same as having a superpower. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/26 "2006-12-05T00:32:54Z")
[QUOTE=kurilla] Bouncing Boy (scientific change) [/QUOTE] I should have clarified my notation - I was only using Scientific Change for deliberate changes, which is why I have Chuck listed as an Accident, since he didn’t intend to drink the elasticising formula. ---
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/27 "2006-12-05T00:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=kurilla] Bouncing Boy (scientific change) [/QUOTE] Dammit, hit submit too soon. I meant to type: Bouncing Boy (scientific change) (accident) - since the formula was a scientific thing that he drank by mistake. Oy. ---
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/28 "2006-12-05T00:34:27Z")
[QUOTE=Tengu] I should have clarified my notation - I was only using Scientific Change for deliberate changes, which is why I have Chuck listed as an Accident, since he didn’t intend to drink the elasticising formula. [/QUOTE] And one of these days I will learn to preview on a routine basis. Okay, I agree with that reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/29 "2006-12-05T00:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=Tengu] Yeeees, I’m not sure what this has to do with her powers being caused by an accident, however. The whole point of this train of conversation is ‘no, Night Girl’s origin would not have kept her out if her powers weren’t limited’. Oh, and just for the heck of it, an attempt at a comprehensive list of pre-Zero Hour Legionnaires, all pre-ZH eras both regular Legion and SW6 Legion, who would be disqualified by a ‘natural power’ (assumed to be mutation or racial trait): Lightning Lad (Accident) Sun Boy (Accident) Lightning Lass (Accident) Collossal Boy (Accident) Wildfire (Accident) Bouncing Boy (Accident) Night Girl (Scientific change) Fire Lad (Accident) Sensor Girl (Mystical change) White Witch (Training) Computo (Accident) Ultra Boy (Accident) Karate Kid (Training) Shadow Lass (Mystical change) Invisible Kid (Scientific change) Catspaw (Scientific change) Timber Wolf (Scientific change) Devlin O’Ryan (Accident) Color Kid (Accident) Chlorophil Kid (Accident) [/QUOTE] As I stated in the rest of my post, the clause that Legionnaires had to have a ‘naturally occurring power’ had nothing to do with **how** they got their power. It had to be a super-power (or super-ability in the case of Brainaic-5) generated from their **physical body** and not derived from a **technological or magical device**. Whether they recieved the power from a freak accident or mutation **did not matter**. What was important that they did not rely on a device or weapon as their primary super-power. The only reason that Lightning Lass might have been precluded from joining the Legion was that her power was exactly the same as her brother’s, who had already been a Legionnaire. When he was dead, that wasn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/30 "2006-12-05T00:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] BTW If we’re going to discuss pathetic super groups we should include the Great Lakes Avengers- Flat man, Door Man, Squirrel Girl, Big Bertha, and Mr Immortal. [/QUOTE] \HA! I can top that!\ What about..The Inferior Five? Although, the Phil Foglio version _was_ fun… ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/31 "2006-12-05T01:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] \HA! I can top that!\ What about..The Inferior Five? Although, the Phil Foglio version _was_ fun… [/QUOTE] Two things #1 They were already mentioned in post #9 #2 I’m acquainted with Merry Man, Akward Man, The Blimp, Dumb Bunny and White feather. I assumed that being printed by DC, everybody else in the thread was familiar with them as well. BTW Dumb Bunny has an inteligent sister who appeared in Foglio’s Angel And The Ape. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/32 "2006-12-05T01:09:15Z")
[QUOTE=The New and Improved Superman] The only reason that Lightning Lass might have been precluded from joining the Legion was that her power was exactly the same as her brother’s [/QUOTE] Which, again, was the whole point of the thread of conversation we were having. **kurilla** posted that if the rule was that you couldn’t have powers caused by anything but an accident of birth, Ayla would have been disqualified by Dream Girl changing her powers. I clarified that if that had been the case she would have been disqualified before her powers were changed because her powers were caused by the same accident as Garth’s. The fact that that isn’t the case is _taken as read_ because they _were_ both in the Legion. A point I also made directly in my post before **kurilla** ’s. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/33 "2006-12-05T01:41:48Z")
On the chance that we’re arguing terminology, I’ll point out that the word used in all versions of the Legion Constitution that I’ve been able to find, is ‘genuine’, not ‘natural’, and in at least one version of the constitution, the rule against extrinsic powers is spelled out separately. A later version has the rule worded thus: > [@Legion Constitution](#): > > (ii) have at least one genuine super-power not activated, assisted, or powered by extrinsic means and not possessed by the contemporary Terran population; and further, such super-power must be distinct from the super-power(s) possessed by any active member other than Superboy; ([Cite](http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing35/hoj.shtml)) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/34 "2006-12-05T02:32:07Z")
Night Girl’s home planet was Kathoon, incidentally. Her father subjected her to a “vitalizing ray” that gave her superhuman strength, supposedly nearing that of Superboy or Mon-El. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/35 "2006-12-05T02:35:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Night Girl’s home planet was Kathoon, incidentally. [/QUOTE] Oddly, kathoon is also the noise Tony Stark makes when he sneezes inside his iron mask. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/36 "2006-12-05T02:40:12Z")
[QUOTE=Agonist] I remember a Nausea Girl or something like it… she could make you feel woozy… [/QUOTE] That brings back memories. I had the comic where she tried out. I hadn’t read it yet and didn’t know who she was but looked at her and guessed her power would be to make people sick. When I read the comic and found out that was her power I was really proud of myself for having guessed right. I bragged to the older neighbor kid who was the comic expert and he mocked me because it was obvious that was going to be her power. ☹ Fuck you older comic geek neighbor. I guessed it! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/37 "2006-12-05T02:44:38Z")
Super Hero League Of Hoboken Robomop-clean messes Crimson Tape-make organizational charts Mademoiselle Pepperoni- know pizza toppings without opening lid Tropical Oil Man- Increase enemies’ cholesterol levels Captain Excitement-put animals to sleep. The league were featured in a video game of the same name. The game is still available for download at a site with Underdog in the name. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/38 "2006-12-05T02:58:45Z")
[QUOTE=DocCathode] Super Hero League Of Hoboken Robomop-clean messes Crimson Tape-make organizational charts Mademoiselle Pepperoni- know pizza toppings without opening lid Tropical Oil Man- Increase enemies’ cholesterol levels Captain Excitement-put animals to sleep. The league were featured in a video game of the same name. The game is still available for download at a site with Underdog in the name. [/QUOTE] I think you’re forgetting at least one.. The Iron Tummy, perhaps? And of course, in other media, there’s the Tick and his cohort.. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/39 "2006-12-05T03:23:14Z")
You’re right. I forgot Iron Tummy- eat spicy foods without distress I think that’s all the starting heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641/40 "2006-12-05T04:06:38Z")
I liked King Midas from the SHLoH with the power to turn anything into a muffler. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/difficult-comics-question-true-geeks-only-legion-of-substitute-heroes/382641.md?page=1)