Y-Babe…
And if I were in the industry, succumb I will. But I’m not. So I won’t. 
I’m saying that, outside of Photoshop (which the OP stated he can’t get), PSP is the program to get. Less than a hundred bucks by now (I saw it going for $70 over the weekend) for something that’s “almost as good”. Sounds like plenty of bang for the buck.
Tech’ems…
Nobody else would be good enough for me, darlin’.
And I have used Photoshop as well, more than many, more than most on this board and I still think that for Padeye’s needs that Paint Shop Pro will suit him well.
PhotoShop requires a huge learning curve and for what he will be using his “photo” program for, I think that PSP will suit him well. I have done supreme photo manipulation with my PSP.
I don’t doubt that most “art departments” use Photoshop, aka in the MAC area and I know this first hand, but this does not tell me that he should buy a $600 program when PSP will suit him well hun. You are a MAC person, I appreciate that, but he’s on a PC and having dealt with graphics on PCs since 1997, I think I can give him a good summary of what PSP is all about. $600 is not in the cards.
PSP is cheap, it’s easy and has a lot of the capabilities for reasonable price. He can even download a 30 day trial before he decides whether it’s for him or not.
Look, Photoshop is damned expensive, and it’s the “standard” amongst those that are in the Mac world and serious graphic artistic people’s…great but I am also in the realm of graphics people, have created some awesome print work with PaintShop Pro, believe it or not.
What I am telling Padeye is to check out PSP before he spends shit loads of money on Photoshop like I have. I know many, many, web artists that use PSP and poopoo Photoshop big time.
I have Photoshop and it’s a pain in the ass to learn. It’s had a huge learning curve with regards to it, virtually anything it offers, and PSP is a great program for what I think Padeye needs. It’s a simple learning curve and has the features that he wants to make his photo manipulation easy as pie.
Sorry, but I have Photoshop, PSP, Illustrator, Picture Publisher, etc…and Paint Shop Pro is his best bet. For what he wants to do it is the most cost effective program, and again it’s easy to learn…shit I have had Photoshop for 4 years and I still don’t know all the ins and outs, it’s too complicated for the person that wants to play and have fun, PSP, one can master that in a matter of hours.
http://www.jasc.com it’s a free download for 30 days.
Sorry yosemitebabe, but for the average person and even those that prefer to have some control without a huge learning curve, PSP is the standard…I think Photoshop is on it’s way out, expect among the die hards. Anything that I can do in Photoshop I can do more in PSP. I have done a lot of beautiful work in PSP and I know my fellow webmasters have too. I hate to say it, but Photoshop is the standard but it’s on it’s way out, just like Quark and it’s standards. It’s the ebb and flow of the field, soon the tide will change and Photoshop will be the secondary part of graphics.
SO I think…I could be wrong but don’t down PSP, it’s been a strong graphics programs amongst web people and we are changing things a lot.
Personally, I’d buy neither. Rather, I’d spend a grand total of $0 and get a copy of the GIMP. Of course, I’m biased: I helped write it. 
The GIMP completely blows PSP away; there is no comparison. With the exception of color matching and CMYK separations (which are important for doing prepress work, but of little or no relevance for regular digital photography), the GIMP is highly competitive with Photoshop. (We don’t do color matching mainly because of patents on the process that we can’t get licenses for.) And I’m comparing with full Photoshop, not one of the eviscerated versions that they push on people as attractive nuisances.
I beg your pardon…I can do as much in PSP as I can in Photoshop and then some. I handle very large files in PSP, and I have both programs.
I have dealt with some huge ass files in PSP…with great results.
What I want to impart to Padeye and he knows me, is that he can get great results with PSP with tons less money. Screw the Photoshop LE, get PSP.
Photoshop is for those that can spend the money on it, I got mine with a web package…I told a customer that I would do a web design project if they bought me Photoshop. For what we were doing, it was a bust.
Sorry, but for what Padeye needs, PSP is perfect for him, quit talking him into spending $600 for a product he will never use. PSP is perfect for his needs, egads.
I have seen so many web projects and even print projects in PSP…but you 'all keep pushing Photoshop, I have it, it’s not better for him, I believe this.
My opinion is that Photoshop is “industry standard” because:
a) Computer graphics used to be the exclusive domain of the Mac
b) It came first
c) Earlier versions of PSP weren’t capable of the nifty things like layers and channels (now it is)
d) Lots of companies have invested a ton in Photoshop and are loathe to change
I use PSP for everything. I’ve played with Photoshop and couldn’t find anything about it PSP wouldn’t do. You can’t beat the price on the GIMP, but it’s really not user-friendly, and the Windows port is a little buggy.
Pardon me not user friendly? Oh you are talking about something else other than PSP…shoot me please, I am trying to keep my house warm right now as the forced air gas heater isn’t working…I am terrified to leave the heater downstairs on.
Oh BTW, it’s industry standard BTW, I deal with a lot of graphics people and they always need me to have my graphics available in either Photoshop or Illustrator…hence my need to have the programs. They can usually send me something in a psd file and I can open it, convert it to something for the web.
I spend about $700 a year now just to to convert graphics in the right way.
Granted, the Windows port isn’t perfect, but I use it on a fairly regular basis and almost never have a significant problem. I’m really not sure what’s not ‘user-friendly’ about it either. I picked it up fast enough, and I don’t think I’m any sort of super-genius…
Ok, as a GIMP developer I’m entitled to comment on this.
The GIMP’s interface was designed for the UNIX environment. As a result, there are a lot of places where things don’t work the way a Windows user intuitively expects them to work. This is frequently confusing for the average Windows user. I find using Windows GIMP confusing because I’m used to the UNIX interface. The fact that GIMP is not an MDI application probably compounds this issue. (Photoshop is an MDI application.) There are issues with the GUI but IMO it’s no more confusing than Photoshop. And the ability to arbitrarily rebind keyboard shortcuts on the fly is incredibly useful.
We’re working on GIMP 1.4 now (we’re at 1.3.1 currently, although please don’t try to use 1.3.1 unless you’re seriously masochistic as we’re working very hard at breaking it into tiny bits right now) so if you have specific issues, complaints, requests, demands, etc. please make your feelings known through the appropriate channels (the gimp-user or gimp-devel mailing lists or the bug tracking system). (You can also post complaints here, but I might not see them, and even if I do seem them I might not bother doing anything about them.)
Just out of sheer curiosity…I’ve used Photoshop since the 2.0 version and have never found it anything but easy to use for the standard day-to-day photo work one does. I’m not really sure why people think it’s a freakin’ mystery to use this program. I’ve always found it very natural and intuitive. Never read a manual for it in my life.
I’ve never ever actually had to buy a copy, but I’m curious, other than price, are there any real advantages to PSP vs Photoshop.
DougC… I was not aware of that limitation. The largest I’d ever had an image at was probably 400X400 DPI, and that was just a silly little personal project. It did run a bit slowly, but I also had several other programs running in the background…
Anyway, I don’t consider the RAM limitation to be that extensive, since RAM is dirt cheap. I can go drop $150 right now and end up with 1.5 gigs.
Another vote for PSP here. I have PhotoShop LE, but for what I do PSP fits the bill, and at a better price.
What type of camera? If you get a digital camera you get software with it to do digital photography on your computer.
Are you using a Mac or a PC? Photoshop is nice, you can get a used copy cheap at ebay.com. I prefer Ulead PhotoImpact, under $100. But then as I said, when you buy a digital camera you already get the software.
Some notes about GIMP from their website:
GIMP was developed originally (and primary development continues) in the UNIX environment but it works as well in both OS/2 and Windows. The Windows port is relatively stable, but lags behind the
Of course there are bugs in the development version; that’s why it’s a development version. Of far more interest to the general user are the bugs in the stable version. The GIMP, like most open-source projects, is released in two different versions: a development version, which is likely to be rather buggy but have more features, and a stable version, which is older and more mature. For the GIMP, the current development version is 1.3.1 (as of this afternoon), and the current stable version is 1.2.2 (according to the current development director, Michael Nattering).
This is cool. This is great. We are going to have a full-out debate over image editing programs! Phooey on these wimpy-assed “Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice” debates, or “Creation vs. Evolution”! Pshaw! Nothing compared to duking it out over image editing software!
It probably will, and I know that it is a fine program. But I am thinking in the long-term. And in the long-term, I think Padeye might have his eye on even better equipment, and better software. With PSP, it’s it. It is all it is. With Elements, there is the potential to upgrade to the “full” version of Photoshop. And Photoshop is full-bodied, and with levels and layers of complexity that may end up really paying off for him as his skills become more sophisticated. If he decides down the road that he needs to afford the Industry Standard ™ then why should he have to learn a whole new interface, when he can already get in the door with an Adobe product? And already be used to the Adobe interface?
I am sure PSP is fine. Hell, I started out on PSP, on my first computer, a little Pentium 75. I have read the reviews. PSP is very nice, but just not quite as nice as Photoshop. And not the “Industry Standard”.
Could we please not make this a platform issue? Because it’s not. NAPP (a Photoshop organization I belong to) recently did a poll, and it turns out that their members are split just about down the middle - half use Mac, half use PC. Photoshop is certainly not a “Mac” thing, by no means.
And by the way, I am a Mac and PC person. I own and use both. There’s this beige box sitting a few feet away from me, and last I checked, it was a PC running Photoshop. Yep, still there. And, I might add, I started on PCs in late '97. I know I am not as proficient as you, but I have come a long way. And having worked as a photo retoucher has given me a particular valuable perspective on this. And, like I mentioned before, I started out on a PC, with PSP. I have used PSP. I still have it installed on my PC. (I have version 6 - I never bothered to get version 7.)
See my reference above about Photoshop and Macs. Adobe would starve if it didn’t sell many copies of Photoshop to Windows users. Photoshop is quite popular among Windows users.
And I know many artists who swear by Photoshop, and will settle for nothing less. I know that when I got into Photoshop, I never looked back. And I started on PSP.
It’s like anything else. You have to read the manuals. Speaking of manuals, I checked Amazon’s listing of Paint Shop Pro 7 books, and it came up with 7 books. A simular search for Photsohop 6 brought up a listing of 75 books. There appears to be lot more support for Photoshop out there. It’s great to have 75 books to choose from. There’s bound to be something for everyone. (I personally like “Photoshop 6 Down and Dirty Tricks”, which had step-by-step tutorials on some great effects. It made learning so fun, and I felt I was really getting somewhere, fast!)
I have to go with pulykamell here - Photoshop just isn’t that hard. I decided to dig in, got some books, made myself work on it, and I soon found things falling into place. Sure, there’s a lot more to learn, but that’s always the case with something this deep and full-bodied. I found PSP hard to learn, but I think that had to do with my attitude (I was just intimidated) rather than the program itself.
Yes, it is a great program, and most assuredly will fulfill Padeye’s needs for now, but down the road, he may end up regretting he didn’t jump on the Photoshop bandwagon much sooner. It is a killer tool for portrait photo retouching. (That’s what the photo lab I worked at specialized in - portraits. And they used Photoshop, on Mac and PC.)
No doubt. But I hear that Elements has a lot of hand-holding features too, which should make it easy to learn as well.
Illustrator does not belong on this list. It is a different animal. It is a vector program (and waaay cool) but just cannot be compared to Photoshop or PSP. It should be compared to Freehand. (I have both - and have decided I prefer Illustrator.)
But that’s the whole point! It’s like an onion - with layers and layers of nifty features. You learn as you go along that it can do this, and that, and you go “Wow! I didn’t know it could do that! COOL!” I do that all the time. It’s wonderful. It’s not a bad thing!
Nonsense! Ever play with Styles or Layer Effects? Easy easy easy, and waaaay cool. And all the filters! Waaaay fun! And what about “droplets” or “actions”? Too too cool. (That “Down and Dirty Tricks” makes Photoshop tinkering to be fun, fun, fun, and it is written so that anyone can complete the tutorials!) This whole idea that Photoshop is so daunting is a myth, IMO. I ought to know. I’m a “newbie” who just plunged in a learned it. True, books helped, but frankly, they help with any computer application.
It is to laugh. Tell all the computer book publishers that. Photoshop may eventually go out of fashion, but that day is not yet. Not for a while yet.
I think most of the reviews and digital experts don’t agree with that. I do believe that PSP is just excellent, but Photoshop is a powerful, powerful program, and PSP just isn’t quite up to that. I have never heard any reviewer or expert claim otherwise, even the ones that adore PSP.
Yes, indeed you have done a lot of beautiful work in PSP. No doubt about it. And I have done a lot of beautiful work in Photoshop and Illustrator. So have many other artists I know.
Oops. I made an error. I looked at Amazon again. PSP has 18 books to Photoshop’s 75.
Now, Amazon’s just confusing me. It now yields just 5 book listiings for PSP 7. The amount of 18 is for anything with “Paint Shop Pro” (with no version number specified). When I search for “Photoshop” (with no version number specified) I get 358 entries.
I spend too much time at Amazon.com, apparently.
Yeah, but (I love yeah buts…) PSP is <$99, PhotoShop is $600. That’s the big advantage PSP has. If you are absolutly sure you need PhotoShop, go for it. If you aren’t sure you need it, isn’t it a lot easier to spend $99 instead?