# Dining out a la carte - yea or nay? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [February 29, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279 "2024-02-29T14:05:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/1 "2024-02-29T14:05:45Z")
A few times over the years, I’ve noticed restaurants changing to all a la carte as opposed to entree-with-sides. Most recently, a local cafe where we used to have breakfast started charging if you wanted toast or potatoes with your omelet, but they didn’t lower the price of the omelet. A sandwich shop we used to like no longer included chips and a pickle - they had to be ordered as extras, and again, the price of the sandwich remained the same. I know prices of everything have crept up, but these instances struck me as over-the-top. Yeah, I’m frugal, and I’m not expecting a business to operate at a loss. But charging $2 for a piece of toast seems just a tad much. We no longer eat at either place - one because the quality and the service seemed to decline with the increased prices, and the other because it’s pretty far away, so no longer worth an outing to eat there. But that aside, I prefer an inclusive meal. A sandwich or burger should have fries or chips. An entree should have at least one side and some bread. What’s next - a surcharge for a salt shaker on the table? Extra for ketchup on my fries? Is this the way of the future? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/2 "2024-02-29T14:14:32Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Is this the way of the future? It’s been the way of fast food for most of the past. If fast food is the way of the future, then…yeah. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/3 "2024-02-29T14:18:16Z")
Personally, I don’t consider fast food to be dining out. But even there, you can get combo meals. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/4 "2024-02-29T14:21:15Z")
The only place I’ve noticed this is at some hibachi places. There’s one restaurant near me that charges $3 for fried rice. It’s kind of an expensive meal to begin with and the $3 surcharge for fried rice chaps my hide. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/5 "2024-02-29T14:22:54Z")
In the one hand, i do like a slice of toast with my eggs. On the other, i don’t want the hash browns. Sometimes i throw them away and feel bad. Other times i eat some of them and regret it. So I’m happy to be able to order the pieces i want and build my own meal. I think the major issue is that they’ve increased the price of the meal by $2 in an annoying way. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/6 "2024-02-29T14:35:02Z")
To me the most annoying ones are fine dining–dinner. $50 steak, $8 bearnaise, $12 creamed spinach? A) that’s stupid expensive. B) aren’t you calling yourself a _chef_ ? I.E. someone who not only cooks well but comes up with interesting combinations of flavors? No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/7 "2024-02-29T14:38:03Z")
Not just fast food. There have always been restaurants that are entirely a la carte (expensive steakhouses) and even more that are partially so - every diner I have ever been to has burgers/sandwiches on the menu and then if you want, you can order a platter or just fries or just onion rings. Sometimes there’s a discount for the platter so it costs less than ordering the fries and coleslaw separately. What I think is different is that some places that used to include sides have cut back - there are restaurants where an entree used to include two sides, say a salad and a potato where there is now an extra charge for a salad. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think the major issue is that they’ve increased the price of the meal by $2 in an annoying way. It is exactly that, a price increase. And while I understand it’s annoying to some people , it also means I no longer have to pay for those breakfast potatoes I don’t eat (home fries or hash browns I will eat - but not those breakfast or country potatoes) or for fries with both my husband’s burger and mine , even though we order a single platter when a burger-only is available. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/8 "2024-02-29T16:22:40Z")
> [@FairyChatMom](#): > > Extra for ketchup on my fries? I encountered exactly this, but it was worthwhile. It was a “trendy” restaurant with an interesting menu. The ketchup was amazing; made in house and more of a chutney. I’d order it again. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/9 "2024-02-29T16:33:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The only place I’ve noticed this is at some hibachi places. There’s one restaurant near me that charges $3 for fried rice. The teppan place near me includes white rice but charges for fried rice with your meal. Miso soup and a couple shrimp are also included. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/10 "2024-02-29T19:43:43Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > In the one hand, i do like a slice of toast with my eggs. On the other, i don’t want the hash browns. Sometimes i throw them away and feel bad. Other times i eat some of them and regret it… _Exactly_ this. Yes, it’s a sneaky(ish) way of raising prices, but that’s going to happen anyway; and if I can mitigate the price rise by limiting a meal to what I actually want, that’s the way I would prefer to go. j ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/11 "2024-02-29T19:54:05Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Not just fast food. There have always been restaurants that are entirely a la carte (expensive steakhouses) Yes, for example Ruth’s Chris has been a la carte since forever. When you order a steak, you get a steak. Nothing else. You have to order any sides in addition. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/12 "2024-02-29T19:58:51Z")
The OP appears mainly to be talking about pricing and a la carte being a sneaky way to increase prices (and yes, I disapprove). But there’s a whole other aspect to this question and it’s about having most or all of a complete meal expertly assembled by the chef so you don’t have the annoyance of having to make a lot of choices, some of which may be sub-optimal or not well matched. Places like that are fairly rare, in my experience, and are mostly limited to Japanese _omakase_ and restaurants that offer _prix fixe_ menus and tasting menus. There’s a wonderful winery restaurant that does full lunches and dinners as a _prix fixe_ deal that includes an accompanying wine with each course expertly matched by the sommelier. They have a great head chef and the experience is always amazing. They also have a small regular menu but I’ve never ordered from it and feel it would be a shame to do so. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/13 "2024-02-29T20:16:30Z")
As to low end breakfast places … yeah, it’s a price increase. But also, breakfast places have always had toast for sale as a single item. IMO there’s another force at work … As customers, including me, have gotten dietarily fussier, the default that _of course_ eggs come w fried potatoes and toast, or _of course_ a burger comes with fries and a pickle spear is increasingly false for an ever-increasing number of eaters. So I’m forced to order the number 3 special except none of _this_ and exchange the _that_ for _this other thing_. All of which increases friction, increases the chance for a kitchen screw-up & re-do, etc. Plus of course the speshul brand of fussy that won’t order at all and walks out if none of the combos have the exact right list of items even though all their desired pieces are available. Just yesterday at breakfast I ordered a combo which consists of 5 items, but I wanted one left off. I said “Don’t add anything extra or more of something to make up the difference”. They ended up abiding by that, but had to plate the meal differently than usual, involving an extra bowl. They may well have been happier had I gone fully _a la carte_. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/14 "2024-02-29T20:22:13Z")
This has bugged me for ages - ever since the average Chinese restaurant started charging for white rice. Yes, it used to be included. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/15 "2024-02-29T22:00:41Z")
OTOH …. my wife and I don’t eat as large of portions as we used to. Sometimes we will split a side, or I’ll order two sides _as my main_ with a shared appetizer or salad. Another couple this last weekend spent plenty on the cocktails but then shared a salad and a pasta between them. The ala carte sides do tend to be generous. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/16 "2024-02-29T22:45:13Z")
There is a restaurant near us that has been open a while and has pretensions of fine dining, with prices to match. We decided to give it a try: My wife uses a wheelchair, so we are well used to having to move furniture around to get her to sit at a table. They were decidedly unhappy about this but we eventually sat down and looked at menus. There was no table d’hôte on offer and my wife wanted the fish, but without the sauce. Our waiter said he would ask “the chef” and after a long wait, he came back to say that it was not possible. This told me what I had already begun to suspect - that there was no “chef” just a cook with a stock of frozen boil-in-the-bag ready meals. We ended up with a Chinese takeaway. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/17 "2024-03-01T14:12:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > So I’m forced to order the number 3 special except none of _this_ and exchange the _that_ for _this other thing_ Just order the regular number 3… [![](https://i.imgflip.com/1lfq0f.jpg) ](https://i.imgflip.com/1lfq0f.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/18 "2024-03-01T14:33:44Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > There was no table d’hôte on offer I have never heard this term. Is it the same as a prix fixe menu? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/19 "2024-03-01T14:37:09Z")
My gf is currently in Florida with her mom doing a mother/daughter vacation thing. So, I went to a brewery last night. They have an amazing grilled cheese sandwich. Bacon on the sandwich is $4 extra. I didn’t want bacon, but asked if I could have sliced tomatoes on the sandwich and a side of pizza sauce as a dip. I said I’d be happy to pay$6 extra. (The sandwich is only $4) So, they did not charge me anything extra, and the kitchen loved the combination. It is being added to the menu! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279/20 "2024-03-01T14:38:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Is it the same as a prix fixe menu? Synonyms, IME. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dining-out-a-la-carte-yea-or-nay/998279.md?page=2)