# Dinosaurs and Man?!? TOGETHER??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 12, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115 "2006-07-12T01:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/41 "2006-07-12T17:11:38Z")
> [@](#): > > I am curious how ancient peoples would be able to accurately piece together dinosaur bones and come up with anything resembling the original creature. > > I suppose if they found an intact skeleton (laid out as the animal existed) that would be a good start but finding a single brontosaurus leg bone doesn’t get you very far in knowing what the whole creature looked like. Even with the intact skeleton why assume a sauropod and not a mastadon (which I think humans did have interaction with)? > > Just doesn’t seem like they would have had much in the way of paleontology and biomechanics knowledge in ancient Greece and such but perhaps they were more savvy than I thought in this regard. An excellent point. It’s long been suggested that Mammoth bones were thought to be bones of humanoid giants in those pre-scientigic days. In fact, it’s been suggested that the nose hole in a mammoth skull could easily be mistaken for an eye orbit, and help gicve rise to the myth of the giant Cyclops. (The theory goes back to at least the 1930s. Willy Ley reported on it in his books, and more recently Adrienne Mayor has brought it up as well, in the first book cited. She bought a plastic model of a Mammoth skeleton and put it together as a “Cyclops” for one photo in her book). But fossils are sometimes preserved as an articulated assembly, just as in life. If you go to Dinosaur National Monument in Utah you can see an entire shelf of such fossils – including the head and neck of a sauropod, clearly showing it to be a long-necked beast. Ichthyosaurs are often found that way, as have Archaeopteryx. Pterosaurs have been, as well, although more commonly they tend to be pulled into a jumble. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/42 "2006-07-12T17:52:54Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > What young earth creationists claim is that assumptions about the consistency over time of physical, chemical and radiation processes are false. To give an example, carbon-14 dating is based on the assumption that the rate of decay of carbon isotopes has been constant for thousands of years. YEC types claim that this is a baseless assumption, invalidating all carbon-14 dates. For decay rates to vary for the relevant dating techniques (not Carbon 14 for dinosaurs - I’m sure you know that but our OP probably doesn’t) there would have to be major changes to natural law, some of which would show up, no doubt, when we look back in time astronomically. Naturally, creationists offer no mechanism how this could even happen. **Polycarp** ’s excellent point about when the stegosaurs went extinct indictates that creationists don’t really understand the commonly accepted evidence. They are arguing from a position of ignorance (or willful stupidity - hard to tell sometimes.) Oh and… \*\* Dinosaurs and Man?!? TOGETHER???\*\* On a Plane! (Sorry, had to get that off my chest. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/43 "2006-07-12T17:54:32Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > **The Fonz** , Just out of curiosity, no insult intended, how old are you? No more than about 6000 years, of this we can be certain. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/44 "2006-07-12T17:55:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am curious how ancient peoples would be able to accurately piece together dinosaur bones and come up with anything resembling the original creature. Not just ancient peoples. Remember, the statue of the Iguanadon in London (in front of the Natural History Museum?) has a nose horn because a big thumb bone was incorrectly assumed to go there. This was done in the mid-19th century, but I believe I’ve read about more recent mistakes - not suprising, really. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/45 "2006-07-12T18:10:17Z")
Birds are dinosaurs. So, dinosaurs exist in the modern world. Q.E.D. Thanks and goodnight everybody! You’ve been great! ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/46 "2006-07-12T18:32:08Z")
It is possible that small numbers of very ancient species did survive into historical times. take the ancient ginko trees-they were planed in Bhuddist temples by the monks, and survive today. or the mammoths-there is evidence that some of them survived on Wrangell island in the artic, until perhaps 10,000 years ago. But dinosaurs? maybe on Skull island. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/47 "2006-07-12T18:47:29Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is possible that small numbers of very ancient species did survive into historical times. take the ancient ginko trees-they were planed in Bhuddist temples by the monks, and survive today. or the mammoths-there is evidence that some of them survived on Wrangell island in the artic, until perhaps 10,000 years ago. But dinosaurs? maybe on Skull island. Mammoths aren’t “very ancient” species. Even the “regular” mammoths were prancing around 13,000 years ago or so, and the Wrangell Island dwarf mammoths survived until about 3,500 years ago-- 10,000 years ago would hardly be called “historical times”. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/48 "2006-07-12T18:59:21Z")
(emphases added) > [@TheFonz](#): > > …This is a Roman mosaic from about **200 AD** that depicts two long-necked sea dragons… > [http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/muralsm.jpg](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/muralsm.jpg) > > This is a beautiful mosaic that was one of the wonders of the **second century world**. The letters above the reptilian animal in question are Greek for KROKODILOPARDALIS which is literally translated Crocodile-Leopard. > [http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/nilemosaicth.jpg](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/nilemosaicth.jpg) > > …In **1496** the Bishop of Carlisle, Richard Bell, was buried in Carlisle Cathedral in the U.K. The tomb is inlaid with brass, with various animals engraved upon it. Amongst the birds, dog, eel, etc. this clear representation of two long-necked creatures is shown: > [http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/bishop\_behemoths.jpg](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/bishop_behemoths.jpg) > [http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/bishop\_eryops.jpg](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/bishop_eryops.jpg) > … > > Could a great catastrophy have occured that swept over the Earth making everything seem much older than it really is. Could this have killed off the dinosaurs like so many other creatures from back in the day? Well, it doesn’t look like **Fonzie’s** coming back to this thread, but I’d like to point out that he’s implying a great catastrophe (say, a flood) happened after the torah was written. Actually, if they were around that recently, why didn’t Hannibal have a triceratops cavalry? That would’ve been cool. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/49 "2006-07-12T19:26:03Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Well, it doesn’t look like **Fonzie’s** coming back to this thread, but I’d like to point out that he’s implying a great catastrophe (say, a flood) happened after the torah was written. Hmm…makes you wonder if Stegasauraus is Kosher. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/50 "2006-07-12T21:13:48Z")
> [@TheFonz](#): > > \*\*Dinosaurs and Man?!? TOGETHER??? \*\* Little knew the Jurassic Park genegineers that their ground-breaking research would give the world a **NEW PORN GENRE!** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/51 "2006-07-12T22:38:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am curious how ancient peoples would be able to accurately piece together dinosaur bones and come up with anything resembling the original creature. > > I suppose if they found an intact skeleton (laid out as the animal existed) that would be a good start but finding a single brontosaurus leg bone doesn’t get you very far in knowing what the whole creature looked like. Even with the intact skeleton why assume a sauropod and not a mastadon (which I think humans did have interaction with)? Fairly intact, articulated skeletons do turn up now and again; even without any specific effort to find them, particularly where sedimentary rocks are being eroded in coastal areas (or if they break along cleavage planes when cliffs collapse). Not by any means an everyday occurrence, but perhaps enough to inspire legends of sea serpents. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/52 "2006-07-12T23:51:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Little knew the Jurassic Park genegineers that their ground-breaking research would give the world a **NEW PORN GENRE!** 😃 Ah, the wonders of the Internet. If you can think of it, someone’s already filmed it, or at least drawn it as hentai. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/53 "2006-07-13T00:01:04Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Ah, the wonders of the Internet. If you can think of it, someone’s already filmed it, or at least drawn it as hentai. Actually, human/dinosaur (well, the intelligent evolved dinosaur that might have existed in the more-or-less present if not for the mass extinction 60mya) couplings have been described in the 1984 Harry Harrison novel _West of Eden_. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/54 "2006-07-13T00:05:17Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Actually, human/dinosaur (well, the intelligent evolved dinosaur that might have existed in the more-or-less present if not for the mass extinction 60mya) couplings have been described in the 1984 Harry Harrison novel _West of Eden_. Ah, the wonders of the Internet. Someone tells you that it’s already been done a decade before the real emergence of the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/55 "2006-07-13T00:34:09Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Ah, the wonders of the Internet. If you can think of it, someone’s already filmed it, or at least drawn it as hentai. Bambi/Godzilla slash? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/56 "2006-07-13T02:45:41Z")
The ancients also quarried limestone in which are found some of the best preserved fossils from the age of the dinosaurs. Commercial limestone quarries still yield some very significant fossils. (While there are very few fossils in marble there are ancient ruins made with marble\* that have fossilized ammonite and shell embedded which, the ancients knowing how far below the surface this was, would have led to questions that would have supported and grown the already embellished tales of _The_ Flood.) \*my understanding is that there is a geological debate as to whether marble by definition can contain fossils- that if it does it is instead still limestone- I’m not informed enough on geology to make a judgment, but the case is that the ancients built with stones that contained fossils and thus were likely puzzled at finding still identifiable impressions of shells and oysters and fish preserved in solid rock dug 30 feet from the surface level. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/57 "2006-07-13T03:07:27Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Bambi/Godzilla slash? :eek: That would make for a rather more optimistic ending to [url=]_Bambi Meets Godzilla._🙂 Or maybe **less** optimistic . . . depends on your value-system and your take on cervidic psychology . . . ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/58 "2006-07-13T06:13:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That would make for a rather more optimistic ending to [url=]_Bambi Meets Godzilla._🙂 > > Or maybe **less** optimistic . . . depends on your value-system and your take on cervidic psychology . . . Monster of steel, deer of Kleenex? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2006, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/59 "2006-07-13T09:21:50Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The ancients also quarried limestone in which are found some of the best preserved fossils from the age of the dinosaurs. Commercial limestone quarries still yield some very significant fossils. (While there are very few fossils in marble there are ancient ruins made with marble\* that have fossilized ammonite and shell embedded which, the ancients knowing how far below the surface this was, would have led to questions that would have supported and grown the already embellished tales of _The_ Flood.) > > \*my understanding is that there is a geological debate as to whether marble by definition can contain fossils- that if it does it is instead still limestone- I’m not informed enough on geology to make a judgment, but the case is that the ancients built with stones that contained fossils and thus were likely puzzled at finding still identifiable impressions of shells and oysters and fish preserved in solid rock dug 30 feet from the surface level. Indeed, and without proper scientific discipline, it’s easy for people to just make up fantastic myths about how these things came to be there; case in point being St Hilda of Whitby, Yorkshire, who rid the area of a plague of snakes by cutting off their heads and turning them to stone. Impressive, but the headless stone snakes are in fact ammonite fossils. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115/60 "2006-07-15T22:40:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Ichthyosaurs are often found that way, as have Archaeopteryx. Pterosaurs have been, as well, although more commonly they tend to be **pulled into a jumble**. POORAUDS PROPAT SILSOF IREGAUMMETH [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dinosaurs-and-man-together/364115.md?page=4)