# Diogenes, a word about your behavior.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223 "2006-08-25T17:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/61 "2006-08-25T19:20:01Z")
I think what both **Trunk** and **Walter** are failing to understand is that is such a thing as decorum. I’m leaving DtC out of this as he seems to get it. The best analogy I can think of is Fred Phelps and his merry band of homophobes. Sure he has every right to his opinion but nearly everyone recognizes the he has his gang are a bunch of attention grabbing, assholish, halfwits for expressing it at military funerals. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/62 "2006-08-25T19:20:08Z")
I think it’s safe at this point to say that Dio understands how other people feel, and it might not be necessary for anyone else to proclaim their advanced sensitivity in the form of indignation, cursing, and insults. I myself find the BBS pile-on to be the lowest form of social action. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/63 "2006-08-25T19:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In this case there wasn’t even a fetus. [/QUOTE] ::headdesk:: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/64 "2006-08-25T19:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] The only “perspective” DtC seems to bring to any situation is one of a person who has very limited human contact. I have no idea if that reflects reality. [/QUOTE] I have a wife and two kids. Do they count as human contact? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/65 "2006-08-25T19:22:31Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In this case there wasn’t even a fetus. [/QUOTE] Wow. You can’t even get the scientific facts right. From the OP of that thread: > [@SadDad](#): > > My wife was 12-weeks pregnant… In fact, that was in the very first sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/66 "2006-08-25T19:23:23Z")
I don’t post often it the Pit, adhering to the adage “if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.” But **Diogenes** posted what he did in MPSIMS, which is frequently a nice haven of support and camaraderie for many of us here on the Dope. I could barely open the thread by our guest, so painful is the subject to me. I have not only lost a child (a daughter, at the age of 8 months) but also an unborn child. Both were my children and my miscarriage was the loss of a child just as surely as the 8-month-old. How anyone could dare to denigrate SadDad’s loss is mind-boggling to me. You seemed to suggest that he didn’t understand what grief was really about. It’s my assessment, Diogenes (and some of the jerks who are now wading in) that you know nothing of grief and its terrible nature. Coupled with the loss of my baby and my miscarriage, I also lost my father when I was 25 years old. I also served on the board of our Hospice. So if anyone knows a thing or two about grief, 'tis I. If anyone is compelled to say anything when someone has suffered a loss so great, please remember these few words: “I’m sorry and I care.” Ellen Also – Some have pointed out he had a “perfect right” to post what he did, but a moderator warned him that it was inappropriate, did he not? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/67 "2006-08-25T19:26:32Z")
Dio, you need to take a break from these boards. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/68 "2006-08-25T19:27:51Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] Nice metaphor for what it means to attempt a rational dialogue with this lot. [/quote] You’re not attempting rational dialogue. You’re still being insulting and offensive. That you don’t realize it and continue to post in that manner only shows how much you deserve the invitation I extended. > [@](#): > > I didn’t read that thread, nor did I say anything to the fellow who posted it. I have nothing but sympathy for him. I only posted HERE, in a different thread, that if one is emotionally vulnerable, it might not be a great idea to post personal information to a group of strangers. You’re right, it might not be. I sttered away from going this very route myself several times because I maintained the emotional wherewithal to evaluate this very argument. The OP, however, clearly has not. He spoke of his breakdown and his need to let it all out somewhere pretty clearly. He looked to this place as a place where he might receive thoughtful and caring responses from the membership. While someone might have the right to post their personal, contrary opiinons in a thread like that, it’s assholish to approach them with callousness as opposed to sensitivity. > [@](#): > > I quoted Diogenes’ label describing threads where people seek sympathy as… well, as threads where people seek sympathy. That makes me callous? Obviously the term “trolling,” is a bit harsh, but my quoting it is pretty slender evidence for judgment, isn’t it? You’re damn right it’s a bit harsh. The word has a definite stigma around here and many other places online as undesirable and destructuve behavior. Your quoting implied agreement with the overall sentiment, and so no, I don’t think it’s invalid to speak of your callousness in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/69 "2006-08-25T19:27:52Z")
And let me say to all the parents here who have lost children, I am so deeply sorry for you loss. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/70 "2006-08-25T19:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Wow. You can’t even get the scientific facts right. From the OP of that thread: In fact, that was in the very first sentence. [/QUOTE] Read that whole OP again. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/71 "2006-08-25T19:29:08Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] I think what both **Trunk** and **Walter** are failing to understand is that is such a thing as decorum. I’m leaving DtC out of this as he seems to get it. The best analogy I can think of is Fred Phelps and his merry band of homophobes. Sure he has every right to his opinion but nearly everyone recognizes the he has his gang are a bunch of attention grabbing, assholish, halfwits for expressing it at military funerals. [/QUOTE] There’s that old nut, the “you can’t possibly understand the issue because you don’t express exactly the same opinion as me.” In fact, I disagree with Diogenes’ comments, would never have made them myself, and understand completely where people are coming from. I don’t feel a need to jump up and down, wagging my finger, where a private cluck of my disapproving tongue will suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/72 "2006-08-25T19:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In this case there wasn’t even a fetus. [/QUOTE] The whole point is that that makes no fucking difference. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/73 "2006-08-25T19:33:06Z")
[QUOTE=crazyjoe] You’re not attempting rational dialogue. You’re still being insulting and offensive. That you don’t realize it and continue to post in that manner only shows how much you deserve the invitation I extended. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry if I failed to show the rhetorical nicety that no one else has shown in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/74 "2006-08-25T19:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I have a wife and two kids. Do they count as human contact? [/QUOTE] How would your wife and kids react to seeing you make that comment in that thread? Think they’d be proud? How about your parents? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/75 "2006-08-25T19:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] There’s that old nut, the “you can’t possibly understand the issue because you don’t express exactly the same opinion as me.” [/quote] Huh? What the hell are you talking about? How did you get that from what I wrote. I’ve said repeatedly that he has the right to whatever opinion he wants. > [@](#): > > In fact, I disagree with Diogenes’ comments, would never have made them myself, and understand completely where people are coming from. I don’t feel a need to jump up and down, wagging my finger, where a private cluck of my disapproving tongue will suffice. And had you been reading, you might have noticed that I agreed with part of his post, however I recognized that _ **that thread wasn’t the fucking place to say so** _. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/76 "2006-08-25T19:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] How would your wife and kids react to seeing you make that comment in that thread? Think they’d be proud? How about your parents? [/QUOTE] My kids are too young to understand it. My wife actually read part of this Pit thread over my shoulder and told me to stop being a dick on my message board. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/77 "2006-08-25T19:37:38Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Bullshit. I’ve actually lost a child, and I have no fucking problem with anybody who wants to equate losing a much-desired unborn child with my loss. [/QUOTE] Didn’t you read what Diogenes said? Your feelings on the issue are incorrect. * * * I just reread this [wonderful essay](http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1732555) by a woman who had a miscarriage; it’s frankly not something I can even begin to understand but it gave me some perspective on what it feels like to be there. > [@John Mace](#): > > See, that’s the problem right there, Diogenes. Your political position ≠ truth. Yes, the current US law defines a person as someone post-birth. But that’s not “truth”. It’s one of many possible definitions that could be used, and, more importantly, has nothing whatsoever to do with how any given person might grieve during a time of loss. Are you so wedded to your pro-choice position that you need to smack down the mere suggestion that someone can mourn the loss of a fetus in the same way that someone else can mourn the loss of a baby? This isn’t the first time you’ve been pitted for this type of behavior and I suspect it won’t be the last, until you relaize that truth and politics aren’t the same thing. Exactly. But if past history is any indication, Diogenes is not merely set in his opinion (something that is not, in itself, a bad thing) but unwilling or unable to acknowledge that other people can legitimately disagree with him. It just amazes me that he would have decided to bring his political beliefs into something like this. It’s just so completely, mind-bogglingly inappropriate and absolutely incomprehensible to me. I’m not the nicest guy around, but I simply can’t even guess what could possibly have been going through Diogenes’ head when he posted that. I just . . . I can’t imagine going around and trying to explain to someone grieving something like this how it’s acceptable to feel in such a situation. I can’t imagine it at all. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I have a wife and two kids. Do they count as human contact? And ever since I learned that, I have always wondered what in the world it must be like for them. > [@Ellen Cherry](#): > > Also – Some have pointed out he had a “perfect right” to post what he did, but a moderator warned him that it was inappropriate, did he not? And whether he had the “right” or not is not really relevant, either, since bobkitty has the same “right” to post a pit thread castigating Diogenes for being such a complete asshole. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/78 "2006-08-25T19:38:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] My wife actually read part of this Pit thread over my shoulder and told me to stop being a dick on my message board. [/QUOTE] Your wife is a wise woman. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/79 "2006-08-25T19:39:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] In this case there wasn’t even a fetus. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately for you, **Diogenes** , human emotion doesn’t always respond to logic and fact. Even IF the pregnancy was a false one\*, so WHAT? The point is, that **SadDad** has every fucking right to mourn the loss of something he truly was hoping and dreaming for. Even if it was what is known as a hysterical pregnancy-where there’s no actual pregnancy, but with the symptoms of one, to **SadDad** , there WAS something there, and to find out it wasn’t actually there, to find out that something they were longing for was just a dream, that’s painful. You’re a cruel, heartless, hateful individual, **Dio**. You say fetuses aren’t human? I would wager they’re more human than you are. \*I think the situation of the original thread was that the pregnancy was a medical case where there wasn’t a fetus, but for some reason, there was a pregnancy, or something? Medical dopers, please help. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/80 "2006-08-25T19:39:27Z")
[QUOTE=Stuffy] And had you been reading, you might have noticed that I agreed with part of his post, however I recognized that _ **that thread wasn’t the fucking place to say so** _. [/QUOTE] I’ve admitted that myself like five times now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223.md?page=5)