# Diogenes, a word about your behavior.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223 "2006-08-25T17:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/141 "2006-08-25T20:34:52Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] It was **excal** who was the more insulting towards **Dio’s** family re the whole “wondering what life must be like for them”. [/QUOTE] Actually, it wasn’t-it was an insult to **Diogenes** , saying that if he’s this much of an asshole, perhaps things aren’t so pleasant for those around him. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/142 "2006-08-25T20:35:09Z")
(Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic: Again, I’m not saying it’s not bad. I’m saying it’s not AS bad as losing a real child.) [QUOTE=John Mace] Please stop digging, **Diogenes**. It’s painful to watch. [/QUOTE] What exactly is it you are arguing against here? I would agree with that quoted sentence by Diogenes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/143 "2006-08-25T20:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I don’t think it counts as a “hysterical pregnancy” when there’s actually a yolk sac and stuff, does it? [/QUOTE] I don’t know what you call it, but there wasn’t a fetus, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/144 "2006-08-25T20:35:34Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I don’t think it counts as a “hysterical pregnancy” when there’s actually a yolk sac and stuff, does it? [/QUOTE] No, it doesn’t. Technically, I suppose it would count as a failed pregnancy which didn’t spontaneously abort. **El**? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/145 "2006-08-25T20:36:51Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Please stop digging, **Diogenes**. It’s painful to watch. [/QUOTE] I already suggested this. He’s not listening to us. Maybe his wife needs to read over his shoulder some more. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/146 "2006-08-25T20:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Why do you have such a problem with someone grieving for something that never was? [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for Diogenes, but to me it’s delusional. It’s like a guy boycotting the 7-11 because his Lotto ticket didn’t pay. ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/147 "2006-08-25T20:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] First, this is false analogy because both scenarios involve an actual death. A false pregnancy does not (not even of a fetus). Second, I didn’t tell anybody how they should feel. I offered an ill-advised opinion about how they should have _advertised_ what happened in a thread title. [/QUOTE] I get extremely tired of this line of reasoning here at the Dope. He didn’t word the thread title the way you think it should have been worded so you were a jerk in the thread. Uh-huh. Can you give an example of an approved title for that thread? One that is short and describes how the OP was feeling? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/148 "2006-08-25T20:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I get that. But I am trying to get you to explain how his family is \*\*Dio’s \*\* “limited contact” with humans. Why would you say such a thing? It doesn’t even make sense. It was **excal** who was the more insulting towards **Dio’s** family re the whole “wondering what life must be like for them”. I do not equate the two of you, but IMO, one of you holds the tar, the other, the feathers. [/QUOTE] There must be a translation issue here. That can be the only expanation for this exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/149 "2006-08-25T20:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] First, this is false analogy because both scenarios involve an actual death. A false pregnancy does not (not even of a fetus). Second, I didn’t tell anybody how they should feel. I offered an ill-advised opinion about how they should have _advertised_ what happened in a thread title. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I figured you’d say as much. You really are an asshole, **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/150 "2006-08-25T20:38:01Z")
[QUOTE=Walter Windchill] I’ve been impressed by the complete lack of self-righteousness by those indulging in the public shaming of Diogenes. Even as they sharpen their pitchfork tines, they’ve been nothing but a good-tempered mob willing to listen to all sides. [/QUOTE] Meh, after the guy’s nth pitting for this kind of thing you just kind of roll with it. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/151 "2006-08-25T20:38:22Z")
[QUOTE=The Swan] Does he have a right to tell them to “man up”, or call them “self righteous”? [/QUOTE] I said I thought he was 'coming off as self-absorbed," not self-righteous. As I said in the other thread the “man up” and “self-absorbed” comments were made in reference to how he said he was treating his wife, not to how he felt about the loss of the pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/152 "2006-08-25T20:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=MLS] I didn’t interpret it as “looking for sympathy,” as much as “looking for someplace to vent.” And why not? Why is that any less worthy of a first post as, say, venting one’s rage at some politician, or sharing a silly story? Is there some sort of tradition that a newcomer should first tell 5 bland anecdotes before trying to be funny, and then 3 humorous stories before he/she can express rage or sorrow? [/QUOTE] My point is this: getting so personal in a first post is unusual. And I did say that I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/153 "2006-08-25T20:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] IBut I am trying to get you to explain how his family is \*\*Dio’s \*\* “limited contact” with humans. [/QUOTE] For the record. I was implying that IF DtC only had contact with 3 people (clearly not the case, as DtC has pointed out), then it would be limited human contact. It would not matter who those 3 people are, human contact would still be limited. It doesn’t mean they are limited people, or whatever the hell you got from it. I was simply saying that 3 people is not a lot of people. Period. He straightened me out on it. This is just weird. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/154 "2006-08-25T20:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] As I said in the other thread the “man up” and “self-absorbed” comments were made in reference to how he said he was treating his wife, not to how he felt about the loss of the pregnancy. [/QUOTE] Yes, because people who are grieving NEVER lash out at each other and act like assholes. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/155 "2006-08-25T20:43:06Z")
[QUOTE=stretch] I get extremely tired of this line of reasoning here at the Dope. He didn’t word the thread title the way you think it should have been worded so you were a jerk in the thread. Uh-huh. [/quote] I thought he was _deceptive_ in how he worded the thread title and that he was deceptive in an emotionally manipulative way. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/156 "2006-08-25T20:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] First, this is false analogy because both scenarios involve an actual death. A false pregnancy does not (not even of a fetus). [/QUOTE] Please explain to me what the difference is between losing a fetus at 12 weeks and finding out at 12 weeks into the (normal-appearing) pregnancy that the fetus stopped developing 10 weeks ago. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/157 "2006-08-25T20:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I said I thought he was 'coming off as self-absorbed," not self-righteous. [/QUOTE] You’re right. My apologies. > [@](#): > > As I said in the other thread the “man up” and “self-absorbed” comments were made in reference to how he said he was treating his wife, not to how he felt about the loss of the pregnancy. Where did you say that in the other thread? I took you to mean no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/158 "2006-08-25T20:44:56Z")
(Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic Again, I’m not saying it’s not bad. I’m saying it’s not AS bad as losing a real child.) [QUOTE=John Mace] Please stop digging, **Diogenes**. It’s painful to watch. [/QUOTE] What is your problem with the above statement by diogenes? I would agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Swan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_Swan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Swan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/159 "2006-08-25T20:45:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] My point is this: getting so personal in a first post is unusual. And I did say that I could be wrong. [/QUOTE] In all seriousness, he could have been a long-time lurker. That was my guess, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223/160 "2006-08-25T20:46:08Z")
I think of some you still don’t get the point. This has nothing to do with human contact or empathy-- it’s all about rigid political ideology. Abortion rights must be defended at all cost, and we cannot allow someone to refer to a fetus (or embryo, or whatever) as a “baby”, a “child”, or even an “unborn child”. No matter that we, as a culture, would never allow elective abortion at 8+ months pregnancy. That almost full term fetus simply cannot be called a baby (undorn or otherwise), on pure ideological grounds. Therefore, we cannot allow to stand the idea that someone might grieve for this fetus in the same way one might grieve for a “real” baby. The English language must be purged of such terms, and humans must be purged of such emotions. My worldview is truth, and anything contrary to that truth must be squashed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/diogenes-a-word-about-your-behavior/370223.md?page=9)